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Alexandria Weaselwise Busen

9 Years Ago

Can The Hand Rival The Computer?

I find that as I watch the latest cartoons with my children that there is no heart in the images...although I have the utmost respect for digital artists...I miss old fashioned hand-drawn animation. Perhaps I am biased as I am an old fashioned gal and a painter.Yet I also wonder how ones own hand drawn images could possible rival the perfection of digital art to the new audience (the "Millennials") when they seem so uninterested in the "Old Fashioned" and "Primitive"...when one paints before the youth they say..."I have an APP for that..." any thoughts?

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Hi, Alexandria,

Hand and computer are not rivals -- they're just different.

As to how much heart is in each, I'd think that's more a matter of perception than reality. That's how I see it, anyway.

 

Like my husband, an artist & musician as well, says to me, "Anyone can create a piece of digital art or take a photograph, but painting, drawing & the like requires a whole different set of innate [or acquired] skills, which not everyone can possess or is able to learn".

 

Old Fashioned and Primitive are not the right descriptions, imo...........that's the 'now' peoples' first mistake, due to lack of historical education and the instant gratification crowd who know no history.

The youth are experts in their own minds. They also disregard history and prefer 'the now'........and I like that !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Some day they will also go 'back' to foundations...

I'm not the slightest bit threatened by new 'apps'...........room for all art, say I.

I don't usually 'do' this pushy self-promotion every chance there's a thread to invade with an artwork......BUT........my proof positive.....is as follows...

Sell Art OnlinePhotography Prints

 

Melissa Herrin

9 Years Ago

We all are still limited by our own imagination regardless of our medium.

 

Robert Wagner

9 Years Ago

Agree Vivian!

If others want to do new stuff,I don't mind.There is no progress from painting into anything else.If you love another form of art or style,that is good,but there is no progression.Like David Hockney says: Nothing can replace painting. I don't understand why everyone wants to be innovative.If you want to be innovative,forget painting! If you want to understand something and express emotion and develop your mind, be a part of human history.Then classical painting is the way,it is an art form that gives light to so much of life.

 

Marlene Burns

9 Years Ago

Alexandra...iTired.
There's a NAP for that!

 

Jeffrey Kolker

9 Years Ago

The art is in the storytelling. As well as the animation. Some of the newer animated movies have great animation. Some of the new cartoons I see as I pass by the channels, looks as if they were drawn by 3 year olds.

When I watched the first few minutes of the movie "Up" the animation was superb, and the heart of that opening bit....wow. Not sure it could have been done as well by hand, without taking a million years (I exaggerate) to do it.

So, to me, it isn't just the medium, it's all in the execution of said medium.

 

Drew

9 Years Ago

Can The Hand Rival The Computer:
it is better than the computer. Also, some of the best CG animations have many of the texturing first hand made then scanned.

 

Dan Turner

9 Years Ago

"I find that as I watch the latest cartoons with my children that there is no heart in the images..."

The Saturday morning fare is pretty thin (budgets!). However, look at the recent big budget animated movies. Lots of heart and emotion. Some of the best (imho):

Brave (look at that hair! look at it move!)
Toy Story 2
WALL-E
Up
Finding Nemo
Tangled

And how about those three little girls in Despicable Me 2? You gotta love 'em!


Dan Turner
Dan Turner's Seven Keys to Selling Art Online

 

Val Arie

9 Years Ago

Hi Alexandria....to me it is like comparing apples and oranges ...I agree with Wendy they are not rivals. I think a beautiful piece of art will be just that regardless of how it is created. and a horrible painting is just as horrible as a horrible photograph. Where did I read we are all just craftsmen/women from the great masters right on down the line.

@ Dan I agree...don't forget Frozen :)
@ Vivian...well said :)
@Jeff...also well said ..."So, to me, it isn't just the medium, it's all in the execution of said medium."

 

Drew

9 Years Ago

From first hand experience I can tell you that cg animation is the most challenging form of visual art and it employees more artist than any other art form today.

 

Well said Dan...there is truly heart in the big budget films :) I guess it is like comparing apples and oranges!

 

Stacy C Bottoms

9 Years Ago

In 2012 Disney combined both traditional hand drawn and computer animation in the short film Paperman. It was shown right before another Disney film and lasts only 7 minutes. If you missed this short animated film at the theater take the time to enjoy it here. Hopefully Disney will continue with this process. This is a link to the film. http://dai.ly/xx5d4c






 

Kelley Lee McDonald

9 Years Ago

Dear Brooks,

Your post caught my attention.

I think it may be good to understand that some artists turn to digital renderings for reasons other than not being able to work effectively or feel deeply about the more traditional mediums. The digital artists I know are incredible with pencils, paints, pastels, choice of papers and canvas. They're advanced in lighting techniques and perspective. It's a mistake to presume that a digital artist may be missing out on the deeper side of things by working in a more modern way.

One thing every artist has in common, no matter what the medium is- the desire is always to do better!

 

Robert Wagner

9 Years Ago

Good night:)

 

Kelley Lee McDonald

9 Years Ago



"My fear is just that art becomes just an idea,not a craft anymore."

Dear Robert,

I appreciate your words up above. The world is going gangbusters now. The crafts are still there though, they only appear different. But I will say, I'm so glad I'm almost 55 and don't have to worry myself about it.

Change is hard, but it's also magnificent!


 

Robert Wagner

9 Years Ago

Hi Kelley

Im in my 30s ,everyone and everything around me is modern.You are the lucky one:)

 

Nicole Whittaker

9 Years Ago

there can appear to be no heart in traditionally painted stuff as in digital paintings. just depends on the artist I guess. I've seen a lot of oil/acrylics/watercolours that although technically brilliant, were missing that spark that happens when an artist pours their soul into a painting.

 

Kelley Lee McDonald

9 Years Ago

Dear Robert,

Don't I know it!

I'm settling into a new phase now. I'm happy and satisfied to move on from my prior passions. You're young enough to dig in and excel, so do so!!! Even someone who is 90, if you're not satisfied, keep going!!!!!

 

Bill Swartwout

9 Years Ago

Took a lot of heart, mind and soul to create AVATAR. If you watch a documentary on how that movie was made - it took an amazing amount of heart and soul to pull off the fusion of technology and actual human actors playing/acting the parts.

 

Kelley Lee McDonald

9 Years Ago

Dear Nicole,

Every piece of art you do will contain a portion of your soul. The difficult part is accepting when no one notices that.

 

Kelley Lee McDonald

9 Years Ago

Right on Bill!!

 

Kelley Lee McDonald

9 Years Ago

Good night Robert,

Sorry you took your post away from up above! You made a good point. :-)

 

IMO, Disney's 'Frozen' stinks on ice - yuck! what a mess (and if I hear that wretched 'Let It Go' tune one more time...sheesh!) Just watch this video, Everything Wrong with Frozen in Ten Minutes or Less: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvwMtWkfkJ8

I think y'all are missing Alexandria's point. Her quandary is this: How can any form of hand-rendered image effectively compete with digitally-rendered imagery in order to attract AND HOLD the attention of today's viewers/audiences?

With attention spans so short these days and the jaded populace so accustomed to being overwhelmed by the artful technology used to create new experiences, such as those found in video games like Bungie's 'Destiny,' which employs a continuously refreshed, immersive environment generated by the company's own servers; we 'old-school' artists will soon be relics, the first victims of the sixth extinction.

All of us here know the value of handmade original art, but do our audiences even appreciate what we do to be able make what we make anymore?

That's not just a quandary...it's a bona fide conundrum.

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Kelley Lee McDonald

9 Years Ago

Dear Patrick,

I think the truth is, the populous doesn't care. They're buying their art nowadays from Hobby Lobby and Kirklands.

The world has changed.

 

Roseann Caputo

9 Years Ago

Drew - nope, no lack of respect, just a disagreement. Sorry, I don't lift images from the net and create compilations. Any photos in my gallery are mine. Yes, I use fractal programs and I use Poser and Vue and guess what? None of those programs can do the art alone. They require interaction and yes, I am quite proud of the art I've created using them. Yes, I do have pencil drawings and I'm not allergic to graphite. So, thank you for your opinion, which like aspects of the human anatomy everyone has. No problem, Drew, moving forward ignoring you will be much easier.

 

Drew

9 Years Ago

Of course it will Roseann. Why don't you stick to it this time. But I do understand. Constantly trying to justify digital graphics as art. No published drawings of any sort finally gave me understanding. No worries! Since Pollock splattered paint, everything is art and every body are artist. Take comfort with the masses of artists!

Nobody accused you of lifting anything......but with a response like that....well. A l'll say is hmmmmmmm.

 

Abbie Shores

9 Years Ago

Drew and Roseanne...please let others discuss now and drop this

 

Roseann Caputo

9 Years Ago

Abbie - message received and understood.

 

Kelley Lee McDonald

9 Years Ago

Take heart, all you digital masters. No one can take your joy, or the pride you feel about your work away from you. But, you can accidentally abandon those qualities when anger and defensiveness sets in. Be certain of your talent and never let anyone distract you from what you know to be true for you. (ok, I'm leaving now…) :-)

 

Sydne Archambault

9 Years Ago

Even in those magical Walt Disney movies they used a machine to give them a 3D effect, that which they could not on just the drawings alone. The technique set Walt Disney apart from the rest because of the camera and glass. So they were reaching for a way to extend their creative genius with glass plates and a camera.

It is no different today when using digital programs. However not all digital artists manipulate photos, some sketch it, paint it as they would if they were painting on a canvas or a watercolor.

Here are a couple I most recently created, one was from a photo reference, but there was a sketch, the other was from my imagination, also from a sketch, no photo reference. No photo manipulation just using traditional methodology with digital paint.

Having said that, I have used digital manipulations in collages, especially in my memorial collages. Most digital artists who do digital manipulation use only their photo's, no pulling off from the internet.

Art PrintsPhotography Prints

 

Roseann Caputo

9 Years Ago

Sydne - well said. Some of us use 3D applications and work with stock models. But I always do a little something of my own to it, in order to make it a bit more unique and mine. But when it comes to Vue, working with the ecosystems, it's just amazing what you can do. It's the application used by many studios, ILM and Disney being two of them.

This is a Vue render and one of my favorites. Pure 3D. Inspired by Autumn in the Berkshires. Some might say anyone with Vue could recreate this exact same scene, and I would say, go ahead and give it your best shot. It's pure imagination coming from me. No photo involved

Autumn in New England by Roseann Caputo

This started out as a doodle, then a sketch, then Photoshop and then Painter. Again, no photo involved. I thought about doing it using colored pencils, but at the time where I was living, I had no space for a drawing table, not that I had one, and drawing on the kitchen table was giving me the most awful back and shoulder aches. I don't draw very fast, I take my time. So, I brought it into PS and worked with it there, but after many layers of work, I still didn't have the look I wanted. And that's when I upgraded Painter and worked with it there.

The Land of Ice and Snow by Roseann Caputo

I'm sure for some it's not art, or a digital painting. And that's fine. They're entitled to their opinions, but I don't have to roll with them.

 

Sydne Archambault

9 Years Ago

Autumn is very impressive Roseanne! I very much like The Land, it has holds mystery for me!

Most who do not know the process, really do not recognize the finished piece as art in all things digital unfortunately.

 

Barry Lamont

9 Years Ago

Hopefully this won't be viewed as image dumping.. but as a traditional artist who also does digital work I must say they both have their merits. There are aspects of digital work that the traditionalists will never come close to re-creating but the same goes vice versa.. I did this piece recently using a basic editing program..but I know I would struggle to achieve the same level of detail by hand. And when it comes to my stonework..well.. computers are a long way off from achieving results in this area.

Sell Art Online

 

Lonnie Christopher

9 Years Ago

As a digital artist I specialize in mimicking natural mediums. It was on the more important processes that I required if I was going to switch. If I couldn't mimic the real thing then I wasn't going to use it. I could no longer use the real thing, but I didn't want my work to look different because of the medium. I spent years creating processes to mimic the real thing as close as possible.I did everything from scanning canvases, papers, and even my own brush strokes with my favorite brushes.

Here is a portrait I did this morning of my Nieces daughter Madison. It is 100% digital but I don't think there is any sign that it was painted digitally. I used my new favorite brush which is a bit sketchy, but I like that look. I am an abstract painter after all.

Photography Prints

 

Barry Lamont

9 Years Ago

Beautiful work Mr Bailey...and certainly up there with the best of the traditional paintings!

edit: I just had a good look with the green square and can confirm...I struggle to tell the difference :-)

 

Lonnie Christopher

9 Years Ago

Roseann I use to do matte paintings for movies, and I used Vue quite a bit. I still use now and then. I was using it last night to flesh out some landscape ideas for some new paintings.

 

Sydne Archambault

9 Years Ago

LC I thought I would post some of your work as an excellent example of how traditional art can be created digitally. but I don't know your process so pulled in a couple of mine. I would guess you sketch your piece or subject then begin the process of digital paint. It would be interesting to note your process, if you don't mind.

I also want to mention, as I digitally work as LC does, I by no means want to suggest digital work created this way is the only way. Gorgeous work from many here that make photo's into wonderful and inspiring art. As I said the beauty of digital is expansive.

I enjoy the detail of your horses Barry btw. Are they sculptures of your creation?

 

Lonnie Christopher

9 Years Ago

Thanks Barry I think shows that it is up to the artist how they want to use digital. You can get the lifeless digital look if you want, but you can also use it to make similar paintings to traditional painting. It's up to the artist how far they want to take it, and I think that is the great thing about the digital medium. You're only limited by your imagination.

 

Lonnie Christopher

9 Years Ago

Thanks Sydne, I am traditionally trained so I generally follow the traditional methods. I start with a light sketch, then underpainting. I then block in the shapes/color, and refine. When I am done I do a lot of post processing to make it look more traditional. I add in the canvas textures, and highlight brush strokes so it gives it a little depth. The rest is just the brushes I create and the settings for the brushes. I mainly use Photoshops art brush because it acts like a real paint brush. Paints mix and blend when you paint over them. It's hard to get the setting just right but once you do it works pretty well. Of course I use different methods when I am trying to simulate different media. What I am explaining here is the wet on wet process I use.

I studied under Ray Turner: http://www.rayturnerpopulation.com/

He is an amazing painter!

 

Sydne Archambault

9 Years Ago

Wet on wet digitally or traditionally LC? Yes excellent artist Ray Turner is!

 

Roseann Caputo

9 Years Ago

LC - That's amazing! Was that all Photoshop? Did you work in Painter at all? That's a flawless canvas effect. That is something I would be interested in knowing how it was done. Vue is the most amazing world-creating app I've experienced. I love working in it.

Sydne - As noted earlier, there are some people who think the only way they do things digitally is the only way it should be done. Just liked some of the trad artists. Ignore them and keep going as you're doing wonderfully.

 

Sydne Archambault

9 Years Ago

Thank you Roseann and I will heed your advice.

 

Barry Lamont

9 Years Ago

"I enjoy the detail of your horses Barry btw. Are they sculptures of your creation?"

Hi Sydne.. I wish! lol.. No, these are the spectacular Kelpies in Falkirk, Scotland. I just rendered one of my shots. I used the editing program to put them into their "traditional" setting but in a modern way.(they are a mythical creatures which are said to haunt various lochs and bodies of water in Scotland)

 

Sydne Archambault

9 Years Ago

Sounds like a wonderful tail!

 

Lonnie Christopher

9 Years Ago

Rosanne it was all Photoshop. Most of the techniques are pretty standard layering tricks using overlays to simulate the textures of the surface, and highlights. The final file usually looks like this:
Layer 5: Lighting - Mixing: Screen, Overlay, or Soft Light.
Layer 4: Texture - Mixing: Filter: Overlay or Soft Light
Layer 3: Painting - Mixing: Normal - Depending on the subject matter there may be a foreground, mid-ground, and background painting layer just to keep things organized.
Layer 2: Under-painting - Mixing: Normal
Layer 1: Sketch - Mixing: Normal

Sydne, Yes, I am explaining in that post how to I simulate a wet on wet process digitally.

 

Sydne Archambault

9 Years Ago

Thanks for your process LC, I always like to hear the process of other digital artists.

 

Roseann Caputo

9 Years Ago

LC - Thank you for that information. I'll experiment!

 

I admire and love all Art, weather it is traditional or digital... lately I am really enjoying digital art, here is my latest :))


Art Prints

 

I've always been drawn to the creative side of life, even as a young child, whether it was/is music, poetry, watercolor, pastel, pen & ink, acrylics on canvas, photography, combinations of all those, simple video art and, lately, even some digital pieces! Cartoons & animation, not so much! But, there's room for all of us and our creations. Each form of expression has it's place....and who am I to say differently?
It's true, some are slower to expand their horizons, as far as venturing out into new ways of working or embracing others who do. Some are perfectly happy & content with the way things are and have been. To each their own.
There will always be those with a little [or a lot] more creativity, style, passion & vision, plus the time, energy, patience & abilities to produce 'masterpieces', in any genre, but we all learn & grow at our own pace. However and whatever works for, and inspires, the artist within is a good thing...and to be encouraged. Here's a recent floral abstract of mine. Enjoy!
Photography Prints

 

Robert Wagner

9 Years Ago

That would be an interesting conversation"What is a masterpiece?".

 

Are you posing the question, for real, Robet! Lol. We may need to start a new discussion for that topic! Have a good night.

 

This discussion is closed.