New Achievement!

you don't really know if other artists are selling or not, Martin. why not just leave your work sitting in here and focus elsewhere for a while? you may be surprised. sometimes when we look too hard for something we cannot find it. focus on making new art and find other venues to sell from to take your attention. do you have any galleries locally that might be interested in your work?

Hello Martin! I just can't understand why an artist of your outstanding ability would give up. OK, so your style of pictures is not in tune with the fashion or what I call the "zeitgeist " effect. In other words, wrong time right now for your particular style though that can change at any moment. So why not try something new? Get some big canvases,brushes and acrylic or experiment with something a bit unusual like oil pastels? Just do something completely different for a while. I lived in a place so tiny once that there was no room even for a table! I know that sounds like a joke but it's true! And the doors were 14th century and built for hobbits ! We were always bumping our heads. And the whole place shook every time a lorry went past as it was on a roundabout and each time,it cancelled out the light! I had to put a board over a sink to make a work space and teach myself encaustic art since there was no room to spread out paints or pastels! I think you are amazing and can surely turn your skills to something else that will sell? This could be a blessing in disguise as was my situation for me since it made me explore new territory. My very best wishes to you. Jane Small

actually you got a sale, but it was canceled - right?

the biggest difference between stock and art - is - you have to advertise art, and often abstract is harder to sell for a home. push the work hard.


---Mike Savad

The sad truth is that the best artist in the world will never get a sale if no one ever sees his work. I'm learning that the internet is great for sales once people know who you are but you need to show up in person before anyone will buy your art. I sell a lot in person but nothing online unless it was someone I met in person and refereed them. I'm also learning that you have to focus on people and places where art is of interest. Art licensing shows, interior design shows, general art shows, or art competitions where someone might see your work. Even swap meets, and art fairs can be a good place to find fans even thought I really don't like those venues. Heck stop buy your local galleries and see if they might be interested in showing your work.Don't spend a dime on advertising, go show people your work. That is what I am learning really works.

Also I've been to a lot of these shows, and most of the art buyers seem to steer clear of fractal art, so that is also something to consider. You might want to focus on your photos, and paintings, and keep your fractal art to another persona, or separate venues than your paintings, and photos.

Carolyn: I see new memberers selling here. And anothe members with this amount of views and gallery size are selling.local gallery intereste in my work:) That is funny, I know it here.
Jane:Thanks, but i have tried more stiles or mediums, nothing worked.
Mike: Yes, but first canceled sale is same, or even worse than no sale. Yes I know I have to advertise. 50k views in less than a year means that I am advertising.Twitter,fb, trying to find the right people etc. no results.
Sorry for being negativistic, but after all my effort in the last year ... Donīt worry this is the last thread I am pesimistic,, I wont be participating in any other .

no actually. the fact that they liked the work enough to buy it once. and they found you as well - getting the sale is the plus. losing it is a bummer, but you also know that one is sellable, people are willing to buy it.

if fractals aren't selling you should try other things. or try them in different ways. adding background, running it into a painter, etc. if one thing doesn't work try another.

---Mike Savad

It takes a while to establish your brand and start seeing results. Every day it gets harder because you start behind the items that have previously sold, unless you have build up a strong brand.

My experience -

Joined 6/10/11

09/15/2011 first sale - card (three months)

06/06/2012 first print sale (12 months)

When you say you are going to try other PODs that indicates to me that you think the POD is going to send you sales when the reality is that you have to send the sales to the POD.

Abstracts will always be a tough sale because what do people search for if they don't know an artist's name? Color, shape, size?

Sounds like you are more interested in selling art than you are in creating art, and think that is bad place to be. Art buyers are just as much or more interested in the artist, as they are in their work. If you don't have any real compelling reason to do your art, or if your just doing what you think will sell then a lot of art buyers can pick up on that and loose interest. I just wrote a blog post about this today for young artists. You need to know who you are and what drives you as an artist. Why do you do what you do, and why will you continue to do it? Many art buyers really want to know the answer to this question, and if you are not sure you might just loose interest. This is why meeting people in person at these art shows really makes a difference in sales because they force you to figure out these things about yourself because the buyers ask lots of questions. Once they learn your story, understand that this is it for you, and that your will continue to produce they will be interested. Hell I have follower that don't even like my art but love my story so they follow to see how I am doing. I've gotten many sales from these people telling my story. (In short I lost blood flow to my right hemisphere (brain) from a disease, and had to learn to paint all over again.)

I would focus more on yourself, and less on what sells. I think you will be much happier creating your art that way, and will show in your work.

These are the types of question you will be asked at shows :

When did you start creating art?

What schools did you attend, or are you self taught?

Why did you start doing fractals?

How long have you been a photographer?

What got you in to photography?

Why do you work in so many mediums?

These people really get in to the "Why's" and it's great because it helps you define who you really are as an artist.

I use to to do several different types of art but I've learned from forcing myself into these show situations that I am a non objective artist at heart, and it makes perfect sense for me to be one based on my history, or story. I wouldn't make sense for me to be a concept illustrator, or pet portrait artist even if there was money in it for me. I occasionally do that kind of things when money is tight, but I definitely don't advertise, or show it.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/588408047915233/?fref=ts

Have you tried this fb group

It took me about 7 months to get my first sale. I think I had about 600 images. I kept working it. The next month another sale... Skip 3 months, one sale the next month, 2 the next, then 1 the next.... Skip 2 months, 3 sales on the last day of the year.... 9 sales for 2013! Nothing til June! Put up tons of images.... Had my images above 1400... Deleted a few - but sold another in August. I'm still working it and getting better and going out and shooting and uploading. I am determined to make it here if it kills me. Yep, it is a hard hard market'. Lots of great competition (to learn from). I started with a pocket camera... 1/2 of my males came from that camera.... Oh, well... It has to pay off one day! At 30.00 a year I have a free website. I have online training and advice. I'm up for the challenge.

After all the work just to upload all those images, it might make sense to keep them all up and for sale, at least through the holidays.

also keep in mind that many of your images look better as a background then a main subject, so they may sell better on ties and placemats. but yeah, keep the prices and the advertising till xmas at least.


---Mike Savad

Most artists have felt the very same as you Martin at one time or another. Good luck to you!

Once you enter the print market I am sorry to say it, but it is no longer as much about the art as much as it is about creating images that people want to buy. In more cases then not, that will be images they can relate to. People buy pictures of boats because they are boaters. People buy pictures of cars because they love cars. People buy pictures of horses because they love horses.

I am also sorry to say that I don't think many people related to abstracts and even fewer to fractals. It has nothing to do with the quality of your art because it is all very good.

You have a lot of things that people can relate to and would buy at a higher rate then the abstracts/fractals.

I paged through you gallery on the images page and buried some where deep in order is one of the best images (as least the one I like best). The I see a gallery that says more popular and there it is.

You have a lot of great images that are "more realism" which will appeal to more people looking for something they can relate to.

I would prioritize your entire gallery and lead with those images. The Christmas stuff I would group all together and put it all in one gallery and put it at the end of the pact. It is seasonal and topical. What you need to put forward are images that are everyday and every season salable.

I would stay out of the contests, the threads and the groups, they all take time that will may bring some return but very little compared to the same effort put into adverting you work OUTSIDE FAA.

I would build my face book page with as many people that I thought would be prospective buyers and NOT focus on FAA friends or even other artists. I would join no fewer then 50 Facebook groups and again, NOT just groups with other artists. I sell a lot of western art so I belong to groups that like the old west and horses. I sell a lot of golf art so I belong to several gold groups. I sell religious art, I belong to a lot of religious groups.

I would do the same with Twitter. I am only looking for followers that are golfers, cowboys and cowgirls, horse lovers, Christians etc, etc. Find as many followers that are NOT artists and you can and look for followers that have large number of NON artist followers and that do a lot of retweeting. And your will have to spend some time retwerting others as well.

Here is another tip, two actually, that I am going to give away to everyone that don't already know it.

Well over 50 of all art is bought by women. So I try to load my FB and Twitter account with women.

And... Texas buys more art then the the ten next best buying states in the country.

So what I am looking for are religious, cowgirls that loves to play golf and lives in Texas! lol

I would do no less then 50 tweets a day and spread them out through out the day as much as possible. I would make at least one post a day in all of your FB groups and each post would be an album of no less the 3 and no more then 5 images. All my tweets and Facebook posts would have links back to the individual images on my AW page and NOT the FAA image page.

And I would change your avatar.

There are two FAA members that are on the page with the most activity all of the time. They are both on Twitter all day long every day.

I have reported several times of the direct sales I have made via FB. I sold another $800 print yesterday, just one day after doing the FB album with five images in it, one was one of the images I sold and I was able to verify this. So I know this works.

I would also work on better descriptions. "Beautiful conifer forest in the evening sun". Pretty boring, imho. Where is it, what is the name of it, why were you there? The nave of the forest the location of the forest are searchable works and terms.

"Winter dolomiten Alps, wiev from the massive Sella, Italy" . Much better and a really great image!! But you could elaborate on it a bit.

"Small yacht on the lake. Vintage feeling." What is the name of the Lake? Where is it at? Both would be search terms.

I forgot to mention the pricing thing and the watermark.

I would lower the price on you cheapest print so it is under $20 and the greeting card individual so it is under $10. These are the two things the buyer sees that will be.

The 9.95 vs 10 or 19.95 vs 20 is a pricing strategy that is proven to have big psychological impacts on the minds of shoppers.

This is the only time you see me give an exact price suggestion.

And I would remove the watermark.

i can't tell you right now that a higher price will not scare a customer away. psychological they will see a lower price and think - walmart. i think his prices are too low actually. i've never been fooled by .95 i don't know how many think $10 and $9.95 makes it look better. if anything the $10 has less digits.

i do agree, no watermarks.


---Mike Savad

Well Mike, once we again we disagree. I chose to go with the hundreds of years of pricing research and practices of the biggest and most suspenseful retailers in the history of mankind.

You see that practice on Rodeo Drive, is Saks Fifth Avenue, Bloomingdale's and all of the highest priced galleries and retailers in the world. If it is good enough for them, It is good enough tor me.

But you Wal-Mart example makes my point. They did not become the largest retailer in the world by not understating pricing and the psychology behind it.


Entry level pricing points is a major part of retailing.

As for higher prices not scaring anyone away. I guess that means that a Mercedes is going to sell as well as a Chevrolet's' compact?

Look at the price of gas, prices in the supermarket, cars, any retail product. They all use that strategy.

Mike,

While lurking back a while I took a good look around to see the pricing. I saw cheap and had similar thoughts to your's.
You can not give your stuff away people will fail to respect the work.

I eventually looked at your pricing. It was slightly above some of the other posters. There seems
to be a lot of posters who are slightly cheaper. So I decided to take a risk and simply copy your prices.

As I did this I got a bit scared. Higher prices? Really? Then I got an email about two weeks ago from Amazon
selling art. The prints were good, the images were good and clean, well chosen for the email. The
prices were 30% or 40% higher than your prices. That gave me a big boost.

The next thing was figuring out the FAA fees and taking them off your prices so mine prices would more closely
match your prices.

Watermarks are not worth it.

Martin, just my opinion you are a very talented artist. Your subject matter might be your problem. Some
of the artists lean very heavily on choosing subject matter they can sell..ie Barber Shop tools and bottles in images...

You dont need to lean that heavily on a different set of subject matter, but you need different subjects. If I were you,
I would start to do self portraits. Or landscapes as you would want to do them.

The big BUT is as presentations. If I hand write a note to a worker and I can not write well, the worker will
not go to work as I wanted him to do. If I present my ideas to my audience well I can sell them. In
art perspectives, perspectives perspectives. At least one object with a point in the image that keeps the eyes
of the viewers moving back into the center of the canvas.

You know your trade clearly. Art is a trick, use the tricks to keep people looking at your art till they buy.

Mood alone is not working. And gears etc paradoxically have no moods.

You are putting yourself out there. I like that. I respect that.

Good luck, but do not give up. Learn from this instead.

Dave

Floyd,

Mike uses the $18.95 price for a single card.

GM is just out of bankruptcy.

Dave

hundreds of pricing research is for retail sales - not art. and in retail sales you have to compete with other people because they have what your selling as well. and if the guy across the street has the same product - for $10. and you have it for $9.95, you might fool them for a second, but its more annoying to have carry change after. and you will never see a painting in a gallery go for $3999.95 - because it would look like produce at that point. $4000 is the price of this image.

walmart sells cheap garbage. do you really want your work associated with that? yes, they did well, they sell by volume. and often only once. we bought cups there. it cracked before we could ever use it. they are a large convenience store and removed the competition by offering everything, but they are certainly not a good example to go by. i'm not impressed when they say they are slashing prices and show something at 97 cents, was $1.01.

these aren't retail products - this is art. something made by me, for the use of art, not as products. there is little competition, other stores are not selling my art (a few, but not box stores). so i have no need to compete with anyone. and if people like my art, they will buy it. and there are a lot of Mercedes on the street.



amazon is now selling gallery images, you have to own a gallery to sell there. so i guess technically - floyd you can sell there if you want. though i'm betting they still take the 15%.


and yes presentation is important. i've only sold one fractal. but i sold it a few times. i don't want to mention which one. but it has sold. the shape, color, even the title matters. using a lot of earth tones are good for presentation reports for companies. using pastels will match people's houses better. however because your selling this as stock as well, it means i have no need to ever go here to buy it. i would find it, as stock, and buy it there for pennies. that's why stock and art don't mix well. while others have had success, i really suggest you create things that are meant just for this site, so there is only one place to go. and to create things that pop more, things that are more fluid.

more colorful, better descriptions and titles. if you want psychological, then the title and description are right up there.


---Mike Savad

Thanks for advices and tips. I have changed prices a liitle (lower smallest prints, higher big prints). I have to say that I was trying to promote outside the FAA via twitter and FB. I am trying to find right people there and folow them. Posting there with hashtags. I am participating in some fb groups, but as I said, I dont see any results.

Ad my returnet print: Yea they liked it enough to buy it until they recieved it :D Someone changed his opinion very quickly.

Of course I am not deleting my acc. but I wonīt be probably renewing my premium. Maybe I will sell some more christmas cards. I guess it is the only work in my port that has a chance to be sold. Funny thing is that I have sold pack of 20 cards, but it has nothing to do with outside promotion.It was bought by another FAA member.

I don't think 1 year is enough to be expecting results.. I think the general rule with any business is to expect the first year to run at a loss..and not become truly established until around year 3.. Personally I'm thinking longer term. If I'm still not getting anywhere by year 5...then I'll consider another career.
It may be the case that you are too focused on your destination (selling) and missing out on the wonderful journey :-)

Mike, you may want to lay off that attack on Wal-Mart and everything they sell is garbage. There are at least three people that I know of that are member here that also have art for sale through Wall-Mat. These are some of the largest sellers no only here but in a lot of other places on net. Being associated with Wall-mart doesn't seem to be bothering them or their sales. lol

We are not selling art here. We are selling copies of or reproductions of art. There is a major difference.

Art prints are no different then any other commodity. People do not have two brains and then switch one on and the other off when they are shopping for art.

You seem to have some sort of problem with Wal-Mart which I think is funny. But what about the other most expensive stores in world, you think they are wrong also? Incidentally you are going to keep suggesting you know so much about Wal-Mart you may want to visit one and pay special attention to the dozens of top, brand name items they sell in nearly every department.

But the bottom lines is, using the same pricing strategies as Wal-Mart (and the rest of the retail universe) does not in any, way, shape or form associate you or you work with Wal-Mart. Guilt by association has no validity.

it doesn't matter to me if they chose to sell through it - they compete against themselves. overall walmart means cheap stuff both in price and quality. it doesn't matter if other people sell stuff in that place or not. this is a gallery with lots of choices, walmart doesn't have that. i've been offered to sell there and i said no because i don't want to be associated with a place like that, not to mention you don't get much for it. if i had things that was just for that place i might sell there.

think - you spent XXX on a sale here, then to see that same thing in walmart? how would a customer look at your image here? they would return and complain. simple as that.



we art selling art here. reproductions of art is still art. my images start as digital so even if i printed it myself its still a reproduction. i have no originals. there is no major difference. if they were signed - it would be worth a lot more.

art is special. because you don't NEED art, you WANT art. a commodity is a banana or a wrench, you need those things to a degree. you need a car for the most part, but it doesn't have to be fancy - you WANT fancy. because it's a want, you can charge more and you should because you put your heart in it. pricing it for walmart doesn't do anything good for you or art in general.

i use walmart as an example because many places have one. i could use target, or other box stores, but people may not know what those are. the more expensive stores have their clientelle, just like i have mine here. people are willing to spend money for the things they like and it makes it special for them. it isn't as special when anyone can run into a store and buy it for $19.97. i go there all the time, it's the only store left, they took out the competition. and yes they sell name brand things, but only some. the rest is their own brand, i'd say at least 70%. it goes under a host of names. and the name brand stuff is in small containers and there isn't that much.

bottom line is - if people see a really low price here - they think walmart - and they may thing lesser quality item. if you have any pride in your work, and you work hard creating art for people to enjoy, then you should charge something for it that is higher than a common box store. its as simple as that.


---Mike Savad

the main thing anyone has to remember is:

if you sell the same things other places sell, then you have to price things competitively, walmart sells cheap because other stores that sell the same things also sell it. and if they undercut that, they will get the person. and if they sell more than the other store, they will keep the person. they make up the profit by selling in bulk, and eliminating mom and pop stores. that's how they succeed.

if you have one of a kind things - in other words - things that are not found in common stores, then you can increase prices. if you have stock some place - that is your walmart. if you sell in a 100 POD's, your prices should probably reflect the lower prices that come up first in the search. if you sell mostly in one place, you can increase the amount. this is my salary. i don't have the free time to tweet dozens of tweets a day - i'm always making something new. and because i work 15 hour days on these things, i think i deserve higher profit lines than a walmart price.

---Mike Savad

"GM is just out of bankruptcy."

Thanks for pointing that out for me because it makes the point. Even in bankruptcy they sold more cars then Mercedes.

And I never said Martin should lower (or raise) all of his prices. I said he should lower his two enter level prices. There is a major difference.

Here's the thing, if I and all of the retail world are wrong, then what has been loss compared to if were are right?

Business is a game of percentages. Much the same a baseball. You go with the odds of what has proven to be the best strategies over time.

Now if you are one of a dozen vs one of 10,0000 that are selling the same product, you can probably get away with ignoring those tried and true policies.

Mike is selling Roll Royces. There are very few people here or anywhere that I have ever seen that are doing what Mike is doing at the level he is doing it.

On the other hand, this place and the market place in general is full of "pretty picture" photography. The competition is brutal. Yes there are a few here that are selling the Roll Royce of pretty pictures but a lot of them are reporting they are selling little or nothing. That is in no small part because of that competition.

As I have said a dozen times before. Go see what the marketplace is pricing "pretty picture" work at and how much of it is out there. Look at the huge publishing houses and look at their prices and their best sellers. Very few best sellers are abstracts, incidentally. Now look for the kind of work that Mike sells. You won't fine a lot of it or any at all.

Very simply said, what is working for Mike is probably not going to work as well for the average. Just like what works for Rolls Royce or Mercedes will not work for Chevrolet or Toyota.

I agree that if you keep your market narrow and limited, then you can charge more.

The thing every artist has to ask themselves is would they rather sell 1 or 2 pieces a month or even a day and make $500 or $1000 each or sell 50,000 pieces and make $4-$5 each. Or where in between they want to be and how they are going to get there.

Disney, probably one of the most rigid, right to being control freaks at protecting their brand, doesn't seem to have a problem with Wal-Mart by the way. And Thomas Kinkade, even before he died seemed to be okay with selling at Wal-Mart was just fine with it. Bev Doolittle, another control freak, very happy to be in Wal-Mart.

I know you don't care if these people sell on Wal-Mart, but you got a bit upset when I called your art novelty items, even though I meant no disrespect. But when you say Wal-Mat sells garbage and we have FAA members selling there. I don't think they are going to appreciate it any more then you did.

the thought that you will be selling more because your charging less -- is FALSE

many are under that impression - even tried it on other sites and found that people will buy the same amount of things - you get less money. i sell the same amount of things per day or per week as i did last year and the year before the only difference now is - i get more money for it.

so if i sell 1-2 a day, i get more now because i charge more now. there are very few here that will sell 50,000 units of anything - even in a licensing deal.

disney is a money maker, they aren't selling one piece of art. they are selling the brand. they want to be in places like walmart, but you'll only see some of their merchandise, not all. they corner the market on other things. shirts, blankets etc - you'll find those at walmart. kincade came out before PODS became popular. he was the original pod type person. he made things just to sell at places like that. and thats the difference. while his art as an original did sell. he made things specifically for box type stores. where as i'm making things for POD's. which limits my audience, but it also creates an exact market for certain types of people. most of my images wouldn't work in a walmart setting anyway.

all i can say is walmart is not known for quality items, they are known for bargains. that's it. if you go there you expect low low prices. low prices often mean low quality, low prices here have that same reflection. when i increased my prices on red bubble - i started getting sales on a more regular basis. there is something to that.

and garbage is a general term meaning lower quality.

---Mike Savad

"the thought that you will be selling more because your charging less -- is FALSE '

And how would you prove that, by your own example? Not good enough. One example or ever a thousand examples would not be good enough to invalidate a couple hundred years of tried and true pricing strategies by the biggest and most successful, and the most expensive retailers in the universe.

Garbage means garbage. You can't back peddle out of it by inventing your own definition! I am just glad it was you that said it and not me! lol

if you have 1000's of stores and your known around the world, and you sell by volume, you can charge less and sell more. but if your one person with not a lot of name recognition, for a small corner of a buyable item - you charge more.

by your own example, you should be charging even less than your charging now, with only a dollar or two profit, you should be selling like crazy. but the art world doesn't work like that. we can't at all compare to hundreds of years because art wasn't ever known to be a hot seller. and even when exploited and sold in box stores, i don't think they fly off the shelf.

fine - garbage is garbage. doesn't make a different the point here being is that the things they sell at lower prices often means the quality is lower. and when people see a lower price it usually means they think the quality is lower (by association), or something related to that.

if you saw a brand new car for $1000 - would you take that deal right away? or would you think, hmmm cars are usually over 20k, i wonder whats wrong with it?


---Mike Savad

Mike, that is exactly what I have been saying!! With the exception of the name recognition. That comes with more selling and then yes, higher prices.

"if your one person with not a lot of name recognition, for a small corner of a buyable item - you charge more. "

You have that... almost no one else has that here on FAA, not that I know of. For everyone else that is simply not going to work. They do not have a corner of any market. They keep telling us that by opening one thread after another saying they have few or no sales.

What is working for your very unique brand of art is not going to work for 90% of the rest of FAA. When anyone arbitrarily tells people to raise (or lower) their prices based solely on their own experience, I don't think it is going to work. I think pricing has to be based on the individual's own experience, his product and how it fits into the overall marketplace. Not just FAA because shoppers on FAA do shop and they do compare prices and they are subject to all the buying habits of all the rest of the buyers for any product on or off the net.



Here is the pricing structure of a few of the large publishing houses.
This is the competition in the marketplace for open edition reproductions.
That is what we are selling here on FAA.

Publisher One

Digital (Glclee) Prints (paper)
DP-126541-0507 7 x 5 in. $4.00
DP-126541-1216 16 x 12 in. $17.00
DP-126541-1824 24 x 18 in. $43.00
DP-126541-2432 32 x 24 in. $54.00
DP-126541-3040 40 x 30 in. $84.00
DP-126541-3648 48 x 36 in. $120.00

The small retailer is paying 50% off that retail prices.
Distributors, such as myself are getting 50% off that retail price and then another 50% off or more if you buy more.
That 48 x 36 print for instance I pay $30 for it meaning I can double my money and sell it retail for $60.

Stretched Canvas Giclees
GCR-126541-1216 16 x 12 in. $56.80
GCR-126541-1824 24 x 18 in. $104.00
GCR-126541-2432 32 x 24 in. $155.00
GCR-126541-3040 40 x 30 in. $192.00
GCR-126541-3648 48 x 36 in. $276.80

The small retailer is paying 50% off that retail prices.
Distributors, such as myself are getting 50% off that retail price and then another 30% off or more if you buy more.
That 48 x 36 canvas I pay $96.60 for. I can retail it for $193 and double my money.

Publisher Two (Wholesale Prices) Suggested Retail would be double the wholesale price.
Stretched Giclee Canvas
8 x 10 $37.68 Retail $75.36
11 x 14 $41.58 Retail $83.16
16 x 20 $56.56 Retail $113.12
22 x 28 $68.38 Retail $136.76
24 x 36 $84.67 Retail $168.72
30 x 40 $109.92 Retail $219.84

Publisher Three
Here is one of the largest and most well know publishes of Signed and Numbered Limited Edition prints. They recently stated doing Open Edition prints, both signed and unsigned.

They price different for different artist. This is one of their best selling artist.
Giclee on Stretched Canvas, Open Edition
Unsigned
Dimensions: 24 x 36
Edition Size: Open
Issue Price: $209.00

Giclee on Stretched Canvas, Open Edition
Dimensions: 16 x 24
Unsigned
Edition Size: Open
Issue Price: $99.00

Open Giclee Poster
Dimensions: 24 x 36
Unsigned
Edition Size: Open
Issue Price: $79.00

Open Giclee Paper Poster
Dimensions: 16 x 24
Unsigned
Edition Size: Open
Issue Price: $39.00

Digital Open Paper
Dimensions: 10 x 15
Unsigned
Edition Size: Open
Issue Price: $30.00

Martin - if you discover how to market you digital abstracts - pleas share. Nothing has worked for me either. I'm going to try a new strategy next year - if it ever gets here - after that - I just don't have a clue as to what I'll do about it. I almost hate to create more - at least they aren't 'real' but on 'file' and I don't have to stack them in the corner or under the bed.

Roy: Well the point is that not even succesful seller like Mike canīt sale fractal abstract very well. So I am afraid there is no market for it.

I am NOT telling anyone to lower (or raise) their prices. With the exception of the previously mentioned entry level prices on the paper print and the note card.

I am saying that anyone that is not selling has to consider all possible reasons why, including pricing and what the competition is. FAA alone is NOT the only competition.

Pricing has to consider a lot of different things other then just raising and lowering the numbers. The strategy of having the entry level pricing at $9.99 vs $10 is called the Psychological Pricing and it is valid. It is also commonly referred to as Decoy pricing. But it really not quit the same.

"Pricing designed to have a positive psychological impact. For example, selling a product at $3.95 or $3.99, rather than $4.00. There are certain price points where people are willing to buy a product. If the price of a product is $100 and the company prices it as $99, then it is called psychological pricing. In most of the consumers mind $99 is psychologically ‘less’ than $100. A minor distinction in pricing can make a big difference in sales. The company that succeeds in finding psychological price points can improve sales and maximize revenue."

Look it up. Buy the book. Make up your own mind.

I keep telling people to take a class on selling and Marketing 101. Pricing is part of the Marketing Mix and there are several different strategies.

People keep asking how to price their work. But then I see the discussion and it usually contains very little of the volumes and volumes that are available based on years of research and experience that can be and should be applied.

One of the things people keep saying is you have to figure out the costs of the product and double it or triple it or wave a magic wand over it after you chanted this is the price three times.

When you are pricing art or in this case the use of your images, the cost of the product has very little to do with it. I is called Value-based pricing. You have to know your market and what the competition is doing. You have to try to understand what the "value" is, as best as you can, to your prospective buyer. And of course your hard costs have to be considered. But they are only part of the equation.

This applies to a lot of creative products. What is the cost of producing a CD? The direct hard cost is a few pennies. Then you have studio time, back up musicians etc, etc. In order to come up with a valid price, you also have to know what the market is. If the market is $19.99 for the average CD and you are not that well known, you are probably not going to sell as many at $35 as you would if you priced it at the market price of $19.99. I don't care how good of musician you are. To come up with that price, you have to understand your own value in the market place as well as what the market perceives of your value. You can think you are worth $35 all you want. But it the marketplace does not have that same perception, you are not going to sell as well.

>

This is great stuff! And this is not even your best stuff, meaning my personal favorites. I had more in the post but I don't know what the limit is.

Martin, I understand you like doing fractals. But why don't you do more of the traditional stuff and promote it until you get the pump primed? Keep the fractals of course.

But it is not like you don't have other really, really great things that should sell better.

Floyd.. You may well sell copies only...but there are many here, including myself, who DO offer art for sale. You can buy an original stone sculpture from me through this website if you like. FAA wont make a penny from it of course... their loss.. but it IS available in abundance.

Edit: sorry for the threadjack Martin..had to be said :o)

I understand that Barry but the discussion is about prints for the most part.

And I think FAA is missing the boat for not selling the originals. But it a logistic things.

I know because I sell originals and limited editions through several direct agreements with artist.

When you as the seller (broker or middleman in this case) do not have 100% control over the art, there are all kinds of problems that can come up.

Most of the artist I work with are very reliable and ship well with in the agreed upon time.

But i have a few l that are a flipping nightmare with. They always have "excuses" why the can't ship.

I am a very small dealer compared to FAA. If they had even a few thousand artist selling original that they were responsible for and only a few percentage of them became a problem, what kind of nightmare would that be?

How do you see those logistics working?

Just trying to help:

background, render, texture, futuristic, symmetry, beam, surreal, ray, radiate, ethereal, clockwork, dynamic, cyberspace, motion, burst, floral

martin that's not true - i'm not known for fractals. there was a lady a while back, karen something, or something something, she's under a different name now. she had fractals but used a painter in conjunction. and made her own unique look. where with the right settings you can create fractals that look a lot like yours. this was much more unique. and she sold a lot of them, for a lot of money, i think starting price was double mine. she left due to finding hitler in the search. in any case she made fractals and succeed. that's why you have to find your niche. if one things doesn't work, try another thing. and if that thing works better for stock, then you have a niche.

keep trying new ideas until something sticks. that's how you build the empire.


---Mike Savad

That was and is Karin Kuhlmann, Mike. Her new name is Carlita Cooly http://fineartamerica.com/profiles/carlita-cooly.html
Karin Kuhlmann Art

yeah, there you go, karin something. i remembered the first part. yeah thanks

but if you look at the work you'll see it's still fractals but she adds her own unique touch. so not only do people like it better, it makes it different, and you know its hers when you look at it. that's the niche you need, something unique that you do that others don't do. though i would be interested if her new prices sell like the old ones.

you'll see her work has a sort of organic feel to it, where as yours are more rigid. hers are more colorful with deep contrast, yours are more earthtones. this is what you have to play with.

---Mike Savad

She left, because of the Hitler?
Bad think is, that I donīt want to make fractals like that, but something mechanical, and mesmerizing, like the work I am doing. But I see that this niche is bad for FAA. So maybe back to stock sites with this work.

she's german, and there is nazi stuff in the search - corbis i think. and she thought that her customers would see that and it would be a poor reflection on her and she left. but i guess this is the place she was able to sell the most and then came back as an alias (where she got that name i don't know).

maybe you can think of other ways to present these mechanical type things. you mostly want them to look different than everyone elses. otherwise you blend.

http://fineartamerica.com/art/all/fractal/all
presumably these would be top sellers. see if you can find a mechanical looking one and see if you can do something in those lines so to speak.

the ones that are mine up there must have been looked at a lot, because i don't think i ever sold any

---Mike Savad

The cool thing about the Carlita Cooly (no pun intended) gallery is the fact that when starting at page 4 and working towards page 1, we can see exactly how her style has developed from being fairly standard fractals..to the beautiful organic and "niche" style that is undoubtedly her own!

Martin..I've said it before but I'll say it again... I think your fractal work IS unique..(maybe i'm just ignorant).. Great help from Ricardo though!

Floyd..there are many other online galleries that seem to manage just fine. Personally I believe the logistics involved would be worth the 30% commission they could be charging us original artists. but like I said...their loss!

I know there are people doing it, as I said... I do it myself.

But I have not taken on any more of that business for years now. Just don't need to when there is an unlimited supply of things I can sell and have zero hazels.

I think Sean sees the same thing right now. But I really don't know what his reasoning is. I would not mind hearing it, but only because I may be able to learn something.

I would like to see one of these galleries that are doing it for 30%. Again, I may be able to learn something from them. Do you have a name or two off the top of your heads?

Saatchi (may be 35%..can't remember). ArtGalleryUK..(defo 30%)

What about something like this?

i think if you made that one round - like and eye - it would sell. as it stands it has a space theme to it, but i can't place a location where it would hang exactly. now if you took that and faded it into a nasa type nebula sky it might do better. but i think it would sell better as an eye - because then you can cross sell it - those that like abstract/fractal, and eye doctors.


---Mike Savad

Hi, Martin,

Just popping in to this intense discussion to say -- I LOVE making fractals, but only have luck selling them in the 'real world' and on Zazzle. People don't know what they are, and are a little wary of them, in general. The younger set doesn't feel that 'technology anxiety', and I think the Z demographic is very young -- so they buy.

When selling face-to-face, I can explain them to more traditional art lovers -- let them see that they're beautiful, in addition to being high-tech and cutting edge -- so they buy.

I keep them in my online portfolios because people love to see them, even if they're not ready to buy. Someday, fractals will be as accepted as any other abstract art form, and I'll be ready to profit from those online sales! :-) (BTW, I have exactly that same experience with my Kaleidoscope work -- sales in the real world and Big Z, only -- but people like to see them. So they stay in my portfolio.)

Digital abstracts . . . well, that's another story. Half of my FAA sales so far, are non-representational digital abstracts or semi-abstracts. They've always done well for me online. I'd like to explain why but, honestly, I have no idea.

Except, of course, that they're awesome! :-)

You'll find a variety of art styles in my portfolio, and I've got a variety of types of buyers, covering a wide demographic. I push them all with marketing, and let the chips fall. The one thing I never do, is stop. Stopping is the one sure way to fail.

Best of luck to you, Martin!

i consider selling art like having your own sitcom. (you can insert your own jokes here whether its a comedy or tragedy). the main thing about a show is, if you repeat them too often people get bored. if you don't make new things, people stop watching. with art, people come back every now and then to see what you have now. it's a constant action to make new stuff and put things up. other websites might help, but that's another site you have to advertise. get on zazzle, sell them as ties - they will sell as ties. and other things. but that takes a lot of work making template sheets.


---Mike Savad

Martin,

My apologies. I looked at your fractals and a piece you recently did about reaching for the moon and thought moody v no mood. I see
you do landscapes etc.

Perhaps you should fudge it a bit by moving the order of your galleries around. Put the landscapes first titled under
BEST SELLERS. Why not. They in fact are.

All else being equal.

LOL

You are an extremely capable artist. Stick with it, but do some more actual marketing.

I think FB is too limited by its nature.

I love the nature of Twitter. It is like handing out business cards
and constantly getting feedback as to who actually wants your business card.

If you get a follower he/she wants to do business. If not then that Twiiter entity is
not wasting your time. Keep moving.

Your landscapes can make you money. I have no landscapes yet so I dont know where
in Twitter land to go for sales, but rack your brains. Who wants landscapes?

Join GrandcanyonPIC on Pinterest and Twitter. Bob specializes in Grand Canyon photos. Huge
built in market. If he likes your work you guys might strike up a good friendship. etc......

Dave

Here is the eye.

Also I made some new fractals in the "chaos lines" style

And I put them together with olders to one gallery.
http://fineartamerica.com/profiles/martin-capek.html?tab=artworkgalleries&artworkgalleryid=468595
But I donīt thing that this style has more chances to be sold, because it looks to simple to me. And I am not very excited about creating fractals like that.

David: Thanks.

eye care professionalsmacro you'll want to fix that. add eye doctor, optometry, iridology, doctor. <br> <br>you never know until you try. i do wonder what program karen used for the white ones. your using the same program i have, which i just totally forgot the name of. <br> <br>your gallery should be arranged so all the fractals are lined up and all the photos are lined up. they look messy this way. <br> <br> <br>stop posting pictures to your twitter feed. no has any reason to visit this gallery if they see it there. and when they see it there its just another picture. send one every now and then, but not a constant stream. focus on the hashtags more. <br> <br>you have a gallery marked images - has no logo and its totally random. you also have some spelling and punctuation errors in your bio you might want to tend too. towards the end mostly, it gets kind of jumpy reading it. <br> <br><a href='http://fineartamerica.com/featured/three-collie-puppies-martin-capek.html' size='20'><img src='http://fineartamerica.com/displayartwork.html?id=11197346&width=250&height=167' alt='Sell Art Online' title='Sell Art Online' style='border: none;'></a> <br>push the photos more than the fractals. in fact, i wouldn't push the fractals for a while, go with cute - i'm not sure what veterinaire is - you want veterinarian. <br> <br><a href='http://fineartamerica.com/featured/sleeping-kitten-martin-capek.html' size='20'><img src='http://fineartamerica.com/displayartwork.html?id=9625424&width=250&height=373' alt='Art Prints' title='Art Prints' style='border: none;'></a> <br> <br> <br>chances are the ones with the most comments are the sellers. the two above can sell. i didn't even know you had photos in there, i thought you only did the fractals, because that's all you ever pushed. <br> <br> <br>---Mike Savad <br> <br> <br> <br>

Thanks,.
Damn spelling errors, I have to be more careful about it.
It is Apophysis. I quess she used it fot the white ones too.
I have few link visits every week. Hm but without images no one will ever retweet that.
I would like to upload more cute animals, but there are none around right now. I have pushed fractals more, because I find them more interesting.

yeah i could never remember that name or spell it. but it has a distinct look, so others have it as well. so maybe a different program. i often have my things retweeted. and has the retweets really helped you at all?

you might find them more interesting, but if they aren't selling, the public doesn't think so. for now push the animals, and other photos. if you start selling you will get higher in the search and maybe fractals will sell. one of the reasons mine don't sell is, they aren't high in the search. other people's work are in front of mine. i enter them in contests when i can.

in any case push the animals the most. you want the Awww factor, and i think females do the most shopping for art, that's what i hear and if you tug on the heart strings, you could get sales. find people that like that breed of dog on twitter and be sure to use that hashtag when you push it. leave them all as links, and one or two should be pictures - and that its for sale otherwise it's just a picture to look at.

---Mike Savad

Well, not at all. (But nothing has helped so far)
Well if yours fractals arenīt hight enough in search mine has no chance.
Ok, I will try to push mine animals and other photography.
Last two month of trying ahead.

when one thing fails you try another. i try to experiment as much as possible to see what sticks. usually only making 2-3 of that one item. but it may take months to get results. my current alphabet is a real gamble, but the amount of time it took me to complete it would have normally have been 1 complex item. you never know until you try though. maybe you can do that too - if you know how to manipulate apophosis well enough, with the math and all. maybe you can try an alphabet with them. that would be different. you may have to cobble a few pieces together though and you can't give up in the middle if your bored of it (like i am).


---Mike Savad

This has been an interesting read and very helpful. I just started here so thanks. I agree with the idea of keep producing your own stuff, be original and never stop.

My opinion is from a karmic perspective. If you keep telling yourself and the universe that your art is not good enough, it will reward you. Try the opposite and see what happens. :)

I thought that my work is good enought, that is why I have joined. I have changed my opinion during the time, because of no sales.

Martin, don't be discouraged. I have been here over three years. I have had one sale, and that was over a year ago. it would be easy for me to quit FAA every day. Obviously, if I use sales as the measure by which I judge my own work, I would have to say that my work is not good. But then I look through my portfolio, and I am pleased with the images I see. I remember creating each one, and each one makes me happy. Your work is impressive and beautiful. You are clearly talented. Don't quit just because so far no one has wanted to part with their hard-earned cash to own a piece of it. There are MANY reasons why people don't buy (in my case, I know much of it is lack of marketing on my part). Unless you are counting on FAA to be your sole source of income, don't let that stop you from creating what's in your heart to make.

It comes down I think to whether you want to sell your art more, or do the art that you want more?

If you really just want to sell sell sell then you need to create art that is going to impel a person who doesn't understand or care much for "art" (whatever that is) to buy it, if that makes any sense. That includes photos of cute puppies and also includes utilitarian things like welcome signs and stuff like that.

Look at Mike! The reason he is so successful here is because he makes art that ordinary people immediately get and has a utilitarian use. If you're a doctor or a lawyer and you want some stuff to decorate your office, you're gonna think his stuff is perfect. On top of that Mike has his definite own style and that's another thing that makes his work so attractive - in terms of the online print market.

Now as for me, I do the art that I want to do and I don't really care if people get it or not and I don't work on a painting with the thought of whether it will sell or not in mind - I just paint what I want to. Others take a more market-based approach and that's ok, there's no right or wrong as long as you're making an honest living. I focus on selling my originals and other artists' originals for the big bucks and if I make a few bucks here and there on a print, then that's great but it's not going to make or break me. As for the people who buy my prints, they're probably not going to come from the random internet universe but rather, they will most likely be people who come to my exhibits, who get referrals from friends, who visit my website because they know me, who read about me in a blog or magazine and searched for my website... etc.

I would echo what others have said: focus on getting your real art out there into the world, and focus less on what this website is going to do for you. It's not a silver bullet by any means and in fact is really a completely different market in and of itself.

"I thought that my work is good enought, that is why I have joined. I have changed my opinion during the time, because of no sales.
"

Martin you just have to overcome this kind of thinking!

How many of the Old Masters nearly starved to death because they could no sell their own work?


There are so many factors in play that will determine rather an artist's work will sell and many times the quality of it is not one of them.

"There are so many factors in play that will determine rather an artist's work will sell and many times the quality of it is not one of them"

That needs to be clarified.

Quality art "should" out sell bad art. Everyone should be able to agree on that. But we can also probably all agree that it does not always happen for any number of reasons.

On FAA that number one reason is getting seen and seen by the right people.

I was told by my favorite art instructor that to make it in the art world you need to spend 90% of your time on the business, and 10% creating good art. When I learned that I almost quit...heh

If you really want to take this serious as a business Martin get a Licencing Agent, and don't worry about the sales side of things.
http://joanbeiriger.blogspot.com/2009/11/list-of-over-50-us-art-licensing.html