Human Spam Vs Open Node

Good thoughts Patrick. I agree with a lot of what you are saying. I have noticed it myself. I think its a lot more fun to share with each other rather then just say "hey! Look at me!"

Good thoughts Patrick!

And you learn a whole more in the process too.

hear hear

Well said and I love the two-headed troll picture. Very appropriate!

Patrick, Patrick, Patrick.............

I COULD say be a man, and do say what you have to say outright to the people you are talking about. Not hide behind this human vs. node thread. However, as we both know, this would get you kicked off the forum faster than I can say, 'Patrick, you naughty man'

This thread is VERY close to an insult to some of our members (in fact it is not very well veiled) so I need you to think very carefully before responding to posts in it

A friendly warning, hence no blue coat.

Now Abbie, I like thinly veiled garb.

;)

I would be happier than a June bug on a Mississippi mud swamp tree if he said his peace, took the punishment, and carried on smartly. But, that's just me. :))))

We'll still love you when you get back - honest injun!

Dear Abbie (why does that have such a familiar ring to it?) and Jeffrey:

Please reread the OP as it has been edited to clarify the point I'm attempting to make here.

Thank you for considering my request.

Warm regards, Patrick

Seems we're off to a good start!


Here's another point I wish to make, this one about learning to take a punch (no irony intended here, though I would still embrace it because I maintain that Life Loves Irony).

When an artist antes up and puts his or her artwork out there for the whole world to see, they should have already prepared themselves for the good, the bad and the ugly; The more people that see the work, the greater your chances of receiving criticism, not all of which will be constructive.

Here's how to take it on the chin:

- Step back and breathe deeply.
The trouble with our being creative (read: imaginative) people is that we're too good at conjuring up worst case scenarios. Harsh critiques of our work do not signal the end of the world, so learn to knuckle under and accept whatever comes; I don't think anyone has ever died because they read a bad review.


Important safety tip: Don't feed the trolls.

"What's a troll," you ask.

A troll (see the above illustration of the two-headed troll, Norbert and Albrecht Glockenspielberger, taken from my mixed media piece, 'Willie von Goethegrupf' - Billy Goat Gruff) is a person who isn't interested in improving your work, but is highly motivated in provoking you with hateful, aggressive, or unsettling texts. There's little to gain in engaging with their lot, so don't feed them and they'll probably go away.

I am confused..........yes

Mario. The irony lies in the fact that I have posted something resembling an advice column, within which I used the (unexpected) salutation, 'Dear Abbie.'

Be not afraid to respond, Mario...fear is most often the result of an overactive imagination taking a wrong turn.

Confusion handled.

I have to say I am a little confused too and a little scared...kind of scary thread Patrick...so I had to check out your work and found this ...not so scary now! Great piece Patrick!



I'm still not sure if I am a human spam or an open node...or if I want to be either :)

Thanks, Val.

The point here is that we've all fallen prey to the temptation to indulge in our spam-ness now and then, so we must occasionally remind ourselves to just shut up and listen; I couldn't speak confidently about this if I hadn't succumbed to it myself.

Just try to remember that when people realize they have an audience, they begin sharing things with you that maybe they wouldn't have shared with you before. Be a good listener and you'll learn stuff about yourself you've never imagined.

Ok, Patrick, now that you put it that way I can agree with you, I admit my spam-ness now and then, more then than now, as I am much like you, the new improved version.lol

Patrick, I'd like a copy of the unabridged original please....

Marlene. A copy is merely a facsimile, a weak imitation of the the thing it mimics - just as you'll likely find in every print-on-demand your customers purchase from this website, which brings to mind something I just realized about POD:

I recently had another anonymous customer return for refund a rather large print order (paper-in-a-tube), and it occurred to me that this non-customer might have scanned those prints before sending them back from whence they came, which would then give this non-customer the opportunity to print out any number of 'facsimiles' at no cost to them, other than the ink and the paper it was printed on.

If there is little in the way of unique identifiers embedded in the original prints, what real value does a paper record of anyone's artwork actually have?

I sell signed and numbered, paper and canvas prints that I create in my studio (StylusPro 9600), each of which comes with a CoA stamped with the gold seal of my own embossed imprint, bearing registration numbers and signed by me, all of which gives added value to the acquisition along with proof that it's genuine.

I could buy and then scan any print with my trusty old V700, then return the prints for a full refund, all to my heart's content...that is, at least until someone puts the kibosh on my scam.

What's up with that?

I sell limited edition prints from right here at FAA. These rare pieces come with a cOa or CoA otherwise called a packing slip. Printing will get better continually and there is not any way to make a signature not able to be copied. How many allegedly signed signed copies of SUMO sold. Few ever actually existed! How many smaller, better copies were recently sold by Taschen? These copies were sold but were NOT signed by the artist. He never signed 10,000 copies of the original.

Paper "money" is only valuable because society collectively agrees it has value.
If I had THE Mona Lisa, I would dispose of it in an environmentally friendly way because I value it NONE.

I agree that if you ask for help then you should be prepared and find the time to help others that need it.
Just because you give out advice and help someone does not mean that they will take sales away from you.
In turn they may well be the ones helping you one day.

Also if you ask for advice and it is given then read it,think about it and then either act on it or ignore it if you think it's not for you.Do not get into a slanging match over it.
All advice on here is freely given and is there to help, not hinder or insult.Some of it may be right to the point so sometimes a thick skin is needed.

“I recently had another anonymous customer return for refund a rather large print order (paper-in-a-tube), and it occurred to me that this non-customer might have scanned those prints before sending them back from whence they came, which would then give this non-customer the opportunity to print out any number of 'facsimiles' at no cost to them, other than the ink and the paper it was printed on.”


Oh my, is this discussion Private?

"...there are those among you to whom I refer as 'human spam' that have no desire to pay their dues..."

"...Unfortunately, these folks - human spam - didn't receive the memo telling them that the world does not owe them anything..."



That's assuming quite a bit, and are pretty broad statements, considering the thousands of people who are on this site who are pretty much strangers who most have not and never will meet. Never, ever assume that people have not paid their dues by participating in the specific ways mentioned.

patrick, a copy of your opening statement, hon.

You bring up a good scam...I'm sure that it happens all the time...even if prints aren't returned, less than dishonest people may feel they have the right to do what you have laid out, because they PAID for the print.

Roy Pederson gets it, which means he’s one of a growing number of bona fide artists that actively seeks to teach others what he knows because he knows he will probably receive more in return in the process…quid pro quo.

Re: Walter’s query about making this thread private.

No way! I invite the general public to learn about the business of marketing our artwork right along with us; "For artists, the great problem to solve is how to get oneself noticed." - Honore de Balzac

This thread really is about teaching and learning the art of marketing ourselves! Thanks, Roy!



PS: Curtis. My apologies to you, sir, because I seem to have temporarily misplaced my Captain Midnight decoder ring after having lost touch with the Secret Squadron, all of which means I won’t be deciphering your encrypted message any time soon…at the very least, not before the FED’s next quantitative easing, if ever.

Dear Greg:

My reference here is to those FAA members who visit this discussion forum specifically - not the website in general - many of whom actively participate by contributing, others of which stay hidden, lurking in the shadows, seldom, if ever, throwing in their two cents (just compare view stats with replies for any thread).

Though I didn't refer to anyone by name, didn't use some arbitrary percentage figure to represent the human spam contingent, it is possible to make the assumption that they exist, given the preponderance of evidence that can be found by simply perusing these threads.

With this discussion topic, I'm trying to let these folks know that they should throw off the persona of human spam and adopt the mindset of the open node of connectivity, for it is in their best interests as artists to do so.

It behooves us all to make ourselves more interesting to those around us - artists, collectors and buyers, alike.



Marlene. Oops! I didn't save a copy of my original OP.

"My reference here is to those FAA members who visit this discussion forum specifically ... many of whom actively participate by contributing, others of which stay hidden, lurking in the shadows, seldom, if ever, throwing in their two cents..."


Which is their prerogative to participate or not participate. So, lurking, not participating, and not "throwing in their two cents worth" places them in the "human spam contingent"?



I'm done here. Carry on.

I think what you're referring to as "human spam" in your OP is a by product of internet communications. I doubt very much if the people who behave the way you've pointed out do so in real life as well as on the web.

I find the very nature of internet and social media exchanges to be very egocentric and spammy. It's more than likely because we live in a society where we are constantly marketed to. Turn on the TV, it's hard to tell where the commercials end and the programming begins. Many mainstream motion pictures are loaded with overt product placement and marketing. When people come to the internet and find that everyone can have a voice here, it only stands to reason that their idea of communication is marketing....or at it's worst spamming.

To me, the real benefit of the internet is the give and take sharing of information with like minded people all over the globe. Sharing information is how everything progresses, and can help one get from good to great.

Greg.

You asked a question seeking clarification of my post, then told us you're done here, without allowing me the chance to give you my answer (should you return, of course).

What you failed to apprehend is that I made no direct connection between so - called lurkers and the human spam contingent; it is you who made the incorrect assumption that I was targeting members who visit but make no contribution.

Marlene. With your comment, you've brought to mind another uncomfortable issue that I frequently have to clear up with new collectors; upon taking delivery of the original art, some will ask if they've also acquired the copyright along with it, while a few will argue that they actually own it.

Yet, when I inform them that I retain the copyright exclusively, they look at me as if they think I've just pulled a fast one.

I will admit to having pulled something akin to my above - mentioned print scam when I purchased a photo of me and my family taken while riding the Expedition Everest attraction at Disney's Animal Kingdom - I made copies and sent them to everyone who rode with us.

Thing is, I did purchase the original photo, whereas the potential for a scam that could be happening when fine art prints are returned after they're scanned remains unchecked.

Patrick,

My last input here. Refer to my post prior to this one, where I cut & pasted your comments and placed the comments in quotation marks.. You've changed your original opening post since I posted your quoted remarks prior to Andrew's posting.. Now I'm done here.

Greg. I edited the OP approximately 15 hours before you cut and pasted my comments into your post. Nothing has been changed since then. It is simply a misinterpretation on your part, though you probably won't acknowledge this, should you perchance, choose to return.

In whatever way this plays out, I am not, as you so bluntly and with such finality wrote, 'done' with you, Greg, as I invite you to challenge anything I've said, whenever you wish.

Patrick,

The problem with this is, it never should have been posted to begin with. And, since you have changed the original posting, it places a few responding comments slightly out of bounds. I expressed in my original reply how I wish you would have approached this endeavor from the get-go.

Unfortunately, this thread is now causing disruptions and it will be closed.