How Do You Handle It?

Whatever you find out it probably won't work in Florida. There is no limit to the rudeness and invasion of personal space if you have a nice camera. If someone sees you taking photos of wildlife it is all over. Usually before you even get off a shot.

besides a blow gun, nothing really works.

often its fun watching them do the camera squats or the lens limbo, thinking they are some how not in the shot if they duck down or crawl like a commando. i usually try to go around them or wait. but if they take too long, i just walk in front. there is a time limit.

in your case (and those bears sounded delicious, though i prefer hot chocolate bears myself), i would tell her that you shouldn't make so much noise, you may startle the bears, and you don't want to startle bears. and from that point, she may be clued in about being mauled to death (let her come up with her own conclusions). maybe it will make her move.

---Mike Savad

of course that can backfire too, because they will pull out their cell phone camera, tablet, laptop, garbage can lid, and anything else with a camera in it, and start shooting like crazy.

---Mike Savad

I don't handle it well

My favourite area is being taken over by offroad bikers. Oh they are very polite but I daren't walk there alone anymore with the puppies and that was my timeout from work. It seems that more and more people have decided to take advantage of our countryside and I am SO annoyed about it LOL

I have a neighbour just like that woman screeching for her husband... this husband ignores HER also

She was there first and she can scream her fool head off if she wants to. You interrupted her, not the other way around.

For people who need solitude (I get it, I'm one of them) there are tons of places in the wild to be alone. Find them. Go there.


Dan Turner
Dan Turner's Seven Keys to Selling Art Online

You should have started screaming "BEAR!" And you would have then had the whole place to yourself...

Sometimes I manage to get there - often not. I like being 'alone' on my walks. I start my morning walk at 5:30 in the morning - still dark, and watch for Venus and Jupiter to the east - then the sun comes up - and it's still and quiet for a moment. and then it's over - traffic begins - people and vehicles. My other half has gotten pretty good about just going along - we touch and point - we seldom talk - if we are walking a trail or path through the woods. We do our best not to intrude on nature - perhaps, sometimes, nature appreciates you quietly slipping along - just looking.

I never tell people what I've seen where - not about birds nests, humming birds, orchids, flowers, although - when asked where I've been I don't mind mentioning a few snakes (they don't bother me - I don't bother them) or spiders.

I hear you, Kathleen! Although the sounds of human voices in the wilderness or other natural sounds (babies crying, etc.) are nothing compared to being assaulted with people's private cell phone drama. Please, I beg you out there -- don't take your personal issues public by discussing issues or debating loudly on your cell phones. We don't want to hear it. I guess you could be glad she didn't have a cell phone, because she'd probably be yelling into it.

The best way to avoid being disappointed when out photographing is to not expect to be alone. I know it is a reasonable expectation when you go to a remote area, but we know how expectations can be foiled. Oh yes, and I agree with Mike's suggestion. If you calmly suggest it's best not to advertise our location to hungry bears, she might get the idea.

I guess I need to join the ranks of those who address Dan as "Dan, Dan, Dan..." LOL.

Geez, Mike. I really am tired. I just got your cinnamon bear reference, LOL. Now I got the munchies and I don't even like pastry.

Phyllis, I actually felt sorry for that woman. She was a million miles from her comfort zone. I think she must have been terrified of being in nature and the only way she could fend off the monsters was to screech and screech for her husband as though she was lost in the woods and about to be eaten by bears. It was no surprise that he was as far away from her as he could get and still be in plain sight.

Abbie, same thing has happened to one of our local treasures. We used to go up there often for spiritual refreshment (a hidden ferny waterfall in an otherwise scorching mountainside) but out-of-area bikers have discovered it and they aren't always polite, in fact there have been some downright scary encounters. I never go there alone now and rarely go at all anymore.

I'm with you, Roy. I've hiked with friends but it's not the same, especially when they are incapable of shutting up for even a minute. That's fine if you're walking down a sidewalk, but not when you hope to see wildlife or would rather listen to songbirds.

Back to the OP... I'm trying to figure out how to shoot iconic scenes in crowded places without losing my patience. There is a long list of acceptable/not acceptable behavior but I haven't seen many examples of diplomatic ways to handle bad behavior.

In the tourist destination city that I live in, there isn't a single place where there isn't a gaggle of wide eyed, iPod snapping, pathway hogging people.
So I've turned to headphones. I push noise cancelling headphones into my head and I hike to my heart's content in my own world.
I know. You want to hear nature all around you, but when that isn't an option, the only way to negate murderous actions is to blast music to drown them out.

Pat, I did the opposite with a friend who is absolutely terrified of bears. I took her on one of my favorite back country hikes where there are lots of bears. I like to think of "my" bears as gentle herbivores and though I'd never want to startle them or approach them, I've never felt that they were a threat as long as I conducted myself properly. Anyway, when we started seeing lots of fresh scat and tracks, she started freaking. I kept telling her that she had nothing to worry about, that they only eat grass and berries, not tough old women. So we came out of the woods where it opened up at the base of a long steep meadow tall with wildflowers. As we started climbing, a bear who'd been napping in the flowers woke and stood up. He was above us, sniffing the air and looking in our direction. My friend hadn't seen him. She was about 30 feet away from me and heading toward him so in a stage whisper I said "Bear! Stop!" I was carrying a video camera so I turned it on and pointed it at him but other than that, neither of us moved. He started to slowly exit stage right then he whirled around and came charging straight down the mountainside aiming for her. I yelled at her to stay absolutely still, DO NOT RUN and watched through the camcorder as he charged.This happened in a matter of seconds and I didn't want to capture a mauling on tape so I dropped the camcorder and gripped my walking stick so I could beat him over the head if he grabbed her. It has a sharp antler handle so he may have noticed it, who knows? Anyway, she stood there, eyes on the ground, with a ski pole stuck straight out in front of her. He got within a foot of the ski pole, and did a whirlwind that sent dirt, rocks and flowers flying then he shot off into the woods. I cannot believe she didn't scream or run. She didn't move a muscle even when she could feel his breath.

Lesley, I have to do that here just to sleep. I love birds but my roosters crow all night and the peacocks scream all night during season so I have to run a fan beside my head for white noise. I am kind of afraid to block sound when I'm around people because it's harder to watch my back if I can't hear them.

"I'm trying to figure out how to shoot iconic scenes in crowded places without losing my patience."

If you use a tripod, here's one of the quickest, simplest ways to remove stray people from your photos without cloning.




Dan Dan Dan Turner
Dan Turner's Seven Keys to Selling Art Online

Like RoyD Erickson said: you have a few minutes solitude before sunrise and ..
few minutes more after sunset. What else do you need for one good photo?

Kathleen I feel exactly the way you do - I have a favorite hiking trail very near my house and I love to go alone - I have a friend who is also a photographer so I don't mind if she wants to accompany me once in awhile but I also have some family who would like to go with me just for the "walk" and I try to limit those times - I don't mind too much if there are one or two others on "my trail" but those that are talking and laughing real loud disturb "my" animals and they usually walk by as I am trying to get turtle shots or birds and of course with the noise they slide into the water or fly away and then I get really angry and end up having to go back to that area about half an hour later to see if they are back in the same spot. I don't handle it well and usually glare at them but I have no idea what else to do diplomatically - it is after all open to the public - I do try to go during the work week though so there are apt to be a lot less people around - my husband tells me all the time not to go alone cause ya never know what or who could be there and we do have a lot of coyotes in the area etc but I need to be alone in my special place and its funny cause it is my husbands favorite place to go with the dog as well and needless to say we usually don't go together!

Wow, Kathleen!! Your bear story gave me the shivers just reading it. Great tip, Dan.

Debbie, that's exactly what I'm talking about. I can't expect privacy in public places but it's really frustrating to put in the time and physical effort to lug gear for miles on the chance of getting good wildlife photos then just about the time I find something really special a group of knuckleheads come busting through the woods making a racket as though they were downtown rather than in a wilderness. I don't understand why they are even there if they aren't paying any attention to their surroundings. I'll be the first to admit that the more time I spend alone, the more I love my solitude so it's getting harder to put up with the loud and the clueless. Pretty soon I'll be that crotchety old broad who yells out the window and shakes her fist at the neighbor kids (if I had neighbors, LOL) just for walking across the lawn.

I probably would have told her to "shut the hell up!". Nothing drives me more batty than someone who shouts or talks incessantly. I feel bad for people who have to live with a person like that.

BUT....seriously, the best time to avoid people is to go out very early morning before sunrise. You won't find the same peace at sunset. More people are about.

If I were photographing, and people started talking around me, I would raise my index finger to my mouth with a "ssshhh" sign then point to what I was waiting to capture. Then hope they get it.

If I were ignored, I'd get up and leave and chock it up to a bad experience but one I learned from.

Dan (Dan, Dan), I have waited for hours for people to move. Once they see your camera they jump in the shot and stay there. You can't combine shots if they never move. They know what they are doing. I don't know why but there are enough that do this that you can wait all morning even if you get there before sunrise. Some panhandlers in front iconic fountains or sculptures will wait to be bribed to move. Some people jump in a shot because they think they will be in a magazine. Some shove their kids in the shot. Others just jump in front of you and will keep shooting with their phone camera until you lose interest. They figure if you are shooting it must be worthwhile. Some just see you are annoyed and will stand there as long as you look like you are waiting for them to leave.

I tried to take a photo of my friends vintage VW in front of a surf shop for hours last weekend.There were 20 others like it. As soon as I set up every one would jump in front of me with their cameras. Groups of tourists waiting to pose in front of a VW bug. As soon as I leave people walk by and take no notice. Move in with the camera and a crowd forms. Move to another car just to do something and a crowd forms there. Mindless tourists who have no idea why they are doing it. Everywhere. Any time, any place. I took a boat ride in Miami last week. A special tour. Some people actually stuck their cameras in front of my lens without knowing what I was shooting. I get that on whale watch tours, but this was random scenic stuff. Ninety percent of the battle in Florida is getting the people to ignore you . Break out a DSLR and a big lens and a line forms wherever you are.

Kathleen it's funny that you say that about those not even aware of their surroundings because I am positive that they are NOT aware of anything but themselves - they would walk right past a beautiful fern just uncurling or a sunbathing turtle or a gorgeous spider web or lovely butterfly in the tall grasses and not see one thing - they then would go home quite satisfied with their "nature walk" and if they were asked what they observed, they would say there wasn't much there to look at that day LOL
I also carry a fair bit of gear and am partial to my big lens, macro and what I call my all purpose lens and it is quite heavy so I am not just going for a little stroll down the path - when I go I am gone for almost 4 hours and that's a heavy load to carry for that long, so I am serious about what I'm observing and am not there to answer the odd walkers questions like "what are you taking pictures of?" and my answer is always 'everything"!

Dear Kathleen,

I packed up a few weeks ago, and drove into the unknown with no plan or particular destination. I wanted to really let go and see, and feel something different. I shy away from crowds myself and prefer the company of nature just like you. Yet, something very interesting and unexpected took place. I have met the most extraordinary people everywhere I go. I have only been met with polite and interesting folks who have exchanged great stories and well wishes. I'm grateful I've been shown the real spirit of the people in this country. It has breathed a new sense of hope in me. Now, people are the new wonders of nature for me. I hope you get to witness that for yourself someday, it is amazing and unforgettable. Happy trails.

I also love to be alone, no humans. (the only one I can stand being with me is my husband) But, he is also a photographer, so he understands. There are many times I'll go out by myself. Doesn't matter what I am shooting or where I am, eventually I run across a person. I always think to myself.. oh great. Most of the time I will continue to focus on whatever I am taking a picture of. Sometimes that person will ask me what I am shooting (while they are trying to find it). I'll answer and go back to shooting. They get the hint and leave me alone. I will not miss a photographic opportunity by someone making small talk with me.

And although I am all for helping someone if they were hurt, just like I would want help if I was hurt. But, if I could see the person who is making the noise, if they don't look hurt.. I will continue taking pictures. It would have to be a screaming/crying/whining kid before I pack up and leave.

people should be quiet when in nature unless making noise is an absolute necessity

Pack up and leave is the only solution I've ever found. Fortunately I'm a painter so it's more what's in my imagine than what I find.
But sorry, wish it we're different. Especially, when traveling outside the country - as you get hated by association.
-- mary ellen anderson

I find weekdays are usually better than weekends (I don't go ANYWHERE on weekends if I can help it).

Also, around here, after labor day and the colder months drive a lot of people away. You don't have leaves on the trees though which usually makes for an uglier scene but fewer people.

So, go on a Tuesday afternoon in the dead of winter!

Debbie, I carry a lot of gear too and it is really heavy. I'm a small person and it takes a toll. We do suffer for our art, don't we?

Joe, I agree completely.

Crystal, I guess I just don't have the focus (no pun intended) to work when there are too many distractions. Shooting with other photographers doesn't bother me as long as everyone is considerate and most often, they are.

Kelly Lee, my rant is about obnoxious, inconsiderate people. Chance encounters with like-minded strangers when I'm on the road has led to some of the best adventures of my life. I leave myself open to new experiences and that has really paid off. Locals I meet on the road have shared with me their own secret places that cannot be found in a guide book or on the net. Mind-blowing stuff that I would never have found on my own. I still have a network of friends from all over my travels and can crash with them whenever I pass through. I'm looking forward to catching up with some folks on this next trip.

Mary Ellen, I usually pack up and leave too but I'll try not to this time.

John, fall in the west is prime time for photogs so I don't think I'll be able to dodge them but I will be up way before dawn and should at least be able to stake out a spot before it gets too crowded.

I was trying to catch a spot on the beach, near a groin with the water hitting at sunset... Have my camera in hand and a couple with a 2 year old get right in front of me and stand there until dark.... urgh! I know just what you mean. No, I don't own the beach - but it was the only night of the trip that I made it to that spot to capture that shot at sunset. It didn't happen. People!

Cathy, were you tempted to say something to them?

16 years ago this was my private heaven. Now it is a mob scene of people who know nothing about how to approach wildlife. Even on a Monday morning at sunrise. Loud conversation and running toward birds nesting is common. Before that my other places were overun.

I try and find hidden or forgotten places...which is something I love about this country...they are everywhere.

I spent last winter exploring churches in older parts of town...not a soul around. What fool would trudge around St Paul, Minnesota in minus 20 degrees? Umm, me.

Last weekend I went to a small town in Minnesota on the 125th anniversary of a firestorm that killed more than 400 people. I found the lake where people went to escape the fires....not easy though, had to bike along an old track for 12 miles but again..no-one around. There was no service to commemorate the day...it was either forgotten or too long ago. But... I still have photos of the railroad tracks that some people used to escape taken on the 125th anniversary that no-one else has.

Will they sell? Who the heck knows? But at least I am not competing with 1000 other photos of Split Rock Lighthouse...

Reminds me - I was in Iceland and pulled off to the side of a road (with not much traffic at all) to get some shots of Icelandic ponies in a field. Put on my 100-400 and proceeded to shoot. No one around - just horses, rain and me - beautiful! A couple of minutes later I see a huge tourist bus zooming by. I thought nothing of it until I hear beep-beep-beep. The darn thing was backing up! It's got level with me and opened the door... Two seconds later I was in the middle of a swarm. One guy literally tried to sit on my head to get the same exact shot (yes, I admit 100-400 looks impressive when fully extended). My reaction? I nearly died laughing. They probably were wondering what was wrong with me. Well, I got my shot and entertainment.

Kathleen, I know your pain. I love hiking alone with no humans, but sometimes when a beautiful animal is present, stupid talking humans cause the them to run away. I've handled it by going hiking very early in the morning. And I love your story about the bear charging your friend. They do that sometimes. I had one charge me, sniff, sit and pant and then woofed and charged away. It's important to be still.

Hi Kathleen,

I understand what you mean and I too, was speaking of the loud, intrusive, type of people you mentioned. I changed my idea of their presence and their energy changed accordingly. It has appeared to be uncanny and I thought it was worth sharing. Be well and safe on your many journeys. :-)

I had an experience on Mt. Rainier recently where another photographer and I were shooting a beautiful 8-point buck near the visitor center at Paradise. (I was shooting HD video, the other photog was shooting stills.) Apparently, several parents there thought nothing of sending their screaming urchins toward the deer with thoughts of getting them in photos with it. Needless to say, this frightened the deer and ruined everyone's experience.

I was also shooting stills of Sandhill Cranes in a park in Michigan when a mom told her little girl to go pet the Crane for a photo op. This was a wild animal that could've seriously injured the girl and, had it done so, it probably would've had to be destroyed.

And there are countless other stories I could tell of people walking their dogs through pet-prohibited nature areas, people yakking at the top of their lungs on cell phones in secluded woods while I was trying to shoot skittish animals, etc. The bottom line is people are essentially stupid when it comes to nature and wildlife, and you just can't fix stupid.

"I changed my idea of their presence and their energy changed accordingly."

There's a lot to that. I live in one of the most photographed places on the planet, and have never run into the disturbances described in this thread. I hardly ever see anyone on the trails, yet I've heard others say they are crowded. When I do meet people, they tend to be fabulous.


Dan Turner
Dan Turner's Seven Keys to Selling Art Online

And they're not just stupid in the woods. I was shooting video in downtown Puyallup, Washington one evening, when a car full of teens pulled up next to me and honked. When I turned to look, a big, ugly kid in the back seat yelled, "Take our picture!" I said, "No thanks", and returned to what I was doing, a moment later, I felt something wiz by my head: the big ugly kid had hurled food at me! I called him a "loser" as they drove off (believe me, I wanted to be much more expletive), and he flipped me off.

Unfortunately, most kids are reared as disrespectful punks, and seeing an expensive camera only seems to encourage them to act out even more stupidly! It's getting to the point where there are places I won't even shoot alone anymore because of the thuggish mindset of so many kids these days. I prefer shooting in the woods, but it's increasingly difficult to avoid stupid people there now, too.

"How Do You Handle It?"


Go early on Sunday morning if I'm heading downtown for urban shots. Minimal people and traffic.

Most kids are reared as disrespectful punks? - Come on, I work with kids all the time and I find them to be very polite and respectful.

Actually, I have found the perfect fix for such issues.....

Summer time- be in place and ready to shoot the predawn light at 0430. Very few rude people wake up at an hour to be where I want to shoot at that time of day, especially on a weekday. Now, I do often share the beach/coast with a fisherman or three but have found the ones there at such an hour also want solitude and leave me alone and I leave them alone.

I have noticed in the winter shooting when the wind-chill factor was around -20 worked pretty well even in greater NYC. Very rarely did anyone get in the way of my shooting in such conditions.

Bad weather works reasonably well too. Hurricane rolling through Washington DC means I have ALL the national monuments to myself with the only other people in any of them the Honor Guards at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier. (Which I might add is impressive to see as a feeder band moves across Arlington.)

"Most kids are reared as disrespectful punks? - Come on, I work with kids all the time and I find them to be very polite and respectful."

It may be that we don't share the same experiences with teens these days. "Most" was perhaps a bit hyperbolic, although when I see a kid walking around with his pants down around his knees, I have a pretty good idea that they have about as much respect for others as they do themselves.

To be fair, it would depend on what groups of kids you encounter the most.

The four gangbangers that I encountered when I got a little too far off the touristy safe area around the National Harbor (Anacostia part of DC) were less so. Dealing with kids in almost any area of the south beyond a few big cities tend to be extremely respectful. More rural areas like NH or KS probably are quite respectful. (I know they are in Kansas) Bad areas of Atlanta or New Orleans? Not so much.

As always, YMMV.

I do live in a rural area. We don't have that particular pants problem. When I lived in Downeast Maine I always found it funny to see kids dressed like people in music videos.

....

The general problem is that people in general are so divorced from an outdoors experience. When they visit a lake, forest, park, they have no expectations of seeing any wildlife. They have no concept of what nature or a wild area is --- unless you experience turning the corner on a hiking trail and running into a moose first hand, you'd never expect it to happen.

The concept of being quiet so that you might actually see some wildlife isn't part of their experience. Also the concept of voices carrying over water is most likely not something they understand. I knew someone who lived on Long Pond on Mount Desert Island and would tell me about all of the squabbling that would be heard from the people who rented canoes.

In my front yard I get to listen to bicyclists shouting back and forth to each other as they wiz by.

.....

In Banff I had my fill of crowds - by the bus loads. I got to see a band of monks in orange robes chasing along after a mother bear and her cub. Of course I believe that the rule should be:

The person with the equipment most likely to get the shot should be allowed the prime position. All others should stay in their cars. :-)

http://sarahmarinophoto.com/landscape-photography-etiquette/

That article was great. I can't say I've experience too many of those problems with other photographers or workshop groups. Or maybe I've just ignored them. Some of these workshops sound like a nightmare.

In Banff I did get the "heavy breathing on my neck" a few times. I'd set up the tripod take a few shots and then feel the presence of someone right behind me. As soon as I moved, someone would jump into the spot I was. I guess I looked like I knew what I was doing.

Kathleen,
Yes... and my husband reminded me that I didn't own the beach... I just thought I did. I'm like, they know what I'm doing... they are doing it on purpose... they are rude! I always get out of the way of other photographers. I think some people try and be a pain!

One of only two shots I have from the Cherry Blossom Festivals in DC. The other was done at 0200 in the fog before anyone else arrived.

"I do live in a rural area."

I've lived around big cities most of my life, hence, I suspect, our very different frames of reference. ;)

There are those that will interrupt a shot...but I was really amazed here in Miami Beach at those that are the opposite..There have been so many times that I would be photographing Deco Drive from across the street and cars would actually stop while I snapped a picture...Happened so many times...and of course the times when people will stop walking till a shot is taken...Works both ways!

Sometimes you just have to work with the situation at hand. One of my biggest selling stock images from Yellowstone is a shot of the Grand Prismatic Spring in which a hiker walked into the frame. Lucky for me she was fit and trim and looked every much like the model hiker. She completed the composition and made the image more compelling.

We were just on vacation in Florida and went to Cocoa Beach where there was the utmost respect for the few photographers that happened to be there - had no issues at all but when we were at Disney and I was trying to take photos of my grandchild, the rudeness was unbelievable
We were at the Kennedy Space Centre and I was waiting patiently for my turn to take a shot and a number of families with loads of kids kept walking in front totally oblivious to me standing there with my camera pointed until it got to the point that I waved my arms and said "can you move please, I won't be long?" and I finally got it but of course had some dirty looks.

I do not handle it well but I realize people have short attention spans and will eventually move on from the spot. Even if I miss the shot I wanted, something else will catch my eye.

In my city it's almost impossible to get a photograph of a monument or object in general without someone coming along and stepping into the shot. I've found that using a 10 stop ND filter and taking 20 second exposures during the day will do the trick of erasing most people from the shot (assuming they are just walking by).

But, lately I've been embracing street photography so I am enjoying the amount of people living in and visiting my city.

And Debbie, I find that if I'm photographing something fairly close up such as a store front people will always stop while I take the shot. If I'm photographing a big scene with a wide angle lens most people don't even notice I'm there.

I hear you, Kathleen! I guess I'm even worse though...I don't like to run into anybody at all when I'm out walking or photographing. I don't care if they turn out to be nice or not...when I'm out in nature, I want to see/hear/smell nature, not people. I find people usually just want to blab on and on about themselves and I have little patience for it in those situations.

I have it pretty good here and rarely run into anyone as long as I go early in the morning. But the off-road bikes and ATV's tend to take over after a certain hour and I can't stand them. Talk about noisy and they often tear up the trail. I've had some close encounters with them when walking my dogs. Last year somebody was killed by an ATV as it rounded a corner.

Right now it's hunting season so these guys in camo are out stalking animals in the forest. There's nothing creepier than running into a guy dressed in camo with a rifle slung over his shoulder. And unfortunately they're usually out in the early morning.

We have gorgeous gardens in our village and I used to like to photograph flowers/dragonflies/butterflies but I gave up because in the summer we get hordes of tourists and as soon as they see a good camera, they're on you asking what you're taking a picture of.

I know I have a bad attitude about it though and should probably try to change, if only for my own peace of mind.

Kathleen, your bear story was fantastic...wow! That sounds like it must've been a life-changing moment for your friend.

Cathy, in your situation. I would have said something. I know, we as photographers don't own the beach or the area we are trying to photograph. But, I be damned if people got in my way just so they can have a better view. I would have ask if they could move just to a little bit to get out of my frame of shot. If they refuse, then I would have moved, either to the right or left or in front of them. However, I would not missed taking the shot.

Your story reminds me, when my husband and I went to Cape May, everyone lined up on the beach to see the sunset. Several photographers, including us have our cameras on tripods. There was a family who was next to us. Although the parents were nice to keep telling their children to not go too far in front of me, I still ended up getting shots of the kids in the frame. The kids wanted to play on the beach and in the water. I was already close to the water edge, about 6 ft give or take to get to the water. It was nice the parents said something to the kids, but well kids don't always listen.

This was one of the shots I got with the kids. Although I was going for only sunset, the kids added a perspective to the image. But, don't worry I got plenty of sunset pics without the kids.



I never try to be rude when I go out to shoot. I'll ask if they can move out of the way, or I'll move to get another angle. Or, if it's another photographer, I'll ask if it's ok I can be here (as in not in their way)

I've come across photographers who think they are more important then I am. There is a spot in Maryland to shoot Bald Eagles. So many photographers lined up along the river to get pictures of the eagles. More then once, I had a photographer who came over to talk to another photographer who was near me. The one who came over to talk. Didn't care where they stood. Could be in my frame of shot. Or, so close to me, they might as well take over my camera. Some people are so inconsiderate. I have to drive 3hrs to get to this area. I am not about to have another photographer in my frame of shot, or in my way to get to my camera to get the shot. I want pictures of eagles fishing, not the back of someone's head.

I'm with Judy Kay - I tend to find people supportive once they are aware of what you're doing.

The difference I find is interacting with people - not reacting to them. Eye to eye contact (how rare now a days) with a smile or a nod of the head and I can almost guarantee that people will gladly respect your space & efforts.

As far a people being loud & screeching in the woods - I guess they call that bait.

How about the bear and her family. Maybe that bear sees you as intrusive as the screaming woman.

I'm with Janine. Interacting with people changes the dynamic. Most times, I end up giving them my card. Or, if it's another photographer, we compare stories or talk about gear. The people who don't want to interact or be kind are usually the ones who move on pretty quickly so they're out of my way. :-) And once in a while I end up making a contact more valuable than the shot I was trying to get...

Some places like in an amusement park you can't walk 20 feet without stopping several times to stay out of someone's photo. At some point the photographer more of the problem, basically infringing on people ability to from point A to B unobstructed.

Often if I see someone pausing, I'll point my camera down so they can pass. In these situations its up to the photographer to understand that they are the ones who has to wait for the right moment.

Went to our favorite overlook to photograph the sunset which looked like it was going to be stunning. Just setting up my tripod and adjusting the camera settings when a car drives up and four young women pile out. They proceed to climb onto the large rock just across from me and my camera, right in front of the scene I was going to capture. Boo hiss... So, turning lemons into lemonade, I asked the young women if I could shoot them in the scene and they obligingly became my 'models'. One in particular was very pretty with long auburn hair that captured the golden light of the evening, and as she leaned against the tree reading, I told her not to move, to just keep doing what she was doing, and captured some wonderful images of her. I have used some of them in photo contests and some uploaded here. Yes, I have a model release. They are beautiful images. Sometimes, the people in the shot are not all that great of photo subjects, but if you ask them if they want their picture taken, then upload it on your website for them to see it, often they end of buying it! For the most part though, getting out at sunrise is the best time to alleviate having any unwanted people in your images. Not many folks like to get up that early!
Always celebrating life, Debra

Good morning! Need to get outside and get on with planting as soon as the caffeine kicks in but in the meantime I've been reading your posts and I thank you all for sharing your experiences. It's good to know I'm not the only one who prefers solitude.

Floyd, the bear family was not aware of my presence. I know enough to stay downwind when stalking animals who rely on their sense of smell. If I find time later I'll drag out an image that I worked hard for that day. I'd gotten several long shots while they were playing in a meadow. When I saw the direction they were heading I ran ahead and positioned myself hoping I could get a reflection shot in a small pond as they passed by. The cubs were playing along the way so they were moving slowly. I got into position and waited forever but they finally came by on the opposite side of the pond and I got my shot. They had no clue that I was there.

Don't know what the anthros would say about our species but I've always assumed we are herd animals and if that's true, we're naturally driven to congregate and to "make nice" with each other (at least until it gets so crowded that we start killing each other to make space). In other species it's the loners who get picked off so I imagine that also plays into the human instinct to herd. Since most people live in urban ghettos these days they don't slip off alone to quietly immerse themselves in wild places and really connect. If they go at all, they tend to go as a yipping pack. Human nature. They are less likely to get picked off than those of us who prefer to go alone and take our chances. Natural selection nearly took me out many times over the years because of my choices and it may still win but I do try to use common sense way more than when I was young.

Peggy, my friend was so brave! After the bear was out of sight, she sat down and didn't get back up for a long time or talk for a while either. The rest of the hike was pretty surreal. We spent several hours in a open meadow a couple miles above the encounter and waited too long to head back. By the time we hit the last couple miles of thick woods it was completely dark. That's also typically where they bed down and where most of their scat piles are. We had our headlamps on so we could see where to put our feet but that was it. We nearly peed every time we heard a twig snap, lol.

Loree, once I get past my initial disappointment to find that I'm not alone, I've also made some wonderful connections. I have the bad habit of quickly assessing a person before they even open their mouth and I've been proven wrong so many times. I've learned a great deal from casual encounters along the trails and surprisingly the most interesting contacts have been those people I instantly assessed and dismissed. At least I've learned that lesson and try my best to keep an open mind without forgetting that serial killers can be handsome and charming.

OK, need to get outside and get digging.

I'm with you Kathleen. I don't want to be around people when I'm out in nature. Around where I live, I don't have it too bad because this is mostly elderly folks, or people who would not dare venture into the woods and fields around us. I do try the early morning bit, finding that time of day to be the most peaceful, as well as better for light and temperature. When I go to Shiloh to photograph our eagles, many times there is a whole crew of photographers. THEM, I don't mind. In fact, I've become really good friends with many of them. It's the tourists who drive me batty. The ones who walk up and want to stand *right in front of my camera* to talk to me. (If I have to hear "what a BIG lens!" one more time....UGH...and mine's nothing compared to some of the photographers there!)

I move the camera another direction (and I'm watching for the eagles to fly in this whole time), and they step in front of it again! Drives me absolutely insane. Last season, I finally told my husband, YOU take over the conversation with these tourists while I walk away. Since he's not a photographer and he often gets bored sitting there, he is more than happy to chat with them while I make a graceful exit. :)

The worst one ever last year was a guy who spent his time there going around to each photographer bragging about his skills, money, camera, travels...basically anything. Turns out he was trying to impress his girlfriend who was with him. What really got to me though was him whistling and calling for the eagle to fly down from the nest. Um, yeah....--NO. LOL We were ALL glad when he finally left. It was the longest hour or so of my life there. I finally took off down the street and left him there to "entertain" everyone else. :) I have found walking away to wherever the people are not at is the best thing I can do. After they leave, I return back to my original spot.

I have met some nice tourists who I've actually become friends with, and for that I'm grateful. But I still prefer to be alone in nature.

Jai, I refer to those kind of tourists as "Tourons" (tourist morons).

Your story about eagles reminded me of a particularly obnoxious Touron near a resort hotel in the Canadian Rockies. I was crossing a tiny wooden footbridge above a trickle when I saw some fledgling sparrows lined up along a branch above the water. Their parent was flying in to feed them and I was trying to get shots of babies taking the food. It was overcast and early so I couldn't get up the speed to capture that. I still wanted a shot of the babies and knew I could only get a sharp shot if the birds and I were completely still. As I began focusing on the babies, along comes a Touron who saw the birds and saw that I was taking pictures. He happened to be a grossly obese Toruon who saw nothing wrong with clomping onto the bridge and right up beside me. Of course his 300+ poundage tromping on a little footbridge caused it to bounce up and down and I thought it might collapse. He stopped close enough to me that I could smell him and started jabbering at the birds. They were alarmed but they were also focused on their next feeding so they were torn about whether to take off or stay. He bounced back off the bridge long enough to grab a phone from his partner then bounced back over to take cell shots. I was able to get one shot off before he returned, though the bridge was still reverberating a little so the image wasn't sharp. He tromped back onto the bridge and leaned across the railing toward them with the phone and they immediately took off.

Oh Kathleen, I can feel your pain with that story! Sorry you weren't able to get the feeding shot, but I think the shot you did end up with is precious! Oh, and I love the word you came up with "tourons"...I will remember that! :)

Jai, I didn't invent "tourons" though the term is apt. Tourons make it difficult for the locals to get around and they do a lot of idiotic things that causes SAR teams to risk their own lives to rescue them. The flip side is the locals depend on Touron dollars to provide the means for them to live in such a glorious place.

There are only a handful of iconic locations here in Colorado where the people thing becomes a true problem, in terms of capturing landscapes - think Maroon Bells and any of the lakes beneath the peaks, or a few of the other lakes in Colorado that are super close (like, within 2 miles) to parking, that don't require very long hikes. Essentially, anywhere with a lake or that's pretty picturesque, that doesn't require a very difficult hike, is where tons of people will be.

But, maybe it's different here than some of the places others have referenced, or I just haven't run into the problem of people hanging around in shots and not leaving, OR it's simply that there's SO MUCH wilderness here that everyone is pretty dispersed across the hundreds of hiking trail options, but fortunately I'm often the first and only person at my destination in the early morning (and my destination is often at minimum 5 miles in); then on my return trip back to the car is when I run into all of the people hiking in.

Anyway I agree with the desire for solitude and quiet out in nature, and I can become irritable with lots of noise and too many people crowding the trails; it ruins the peaceful aspect of being in the wilderness. If possible I completely avoid weekends, and I also get up early enough that I don't really encounter people until later.

We use the word Touron to describe the people who send there five year olds out into the field with a point and shoot to get a nice picture of the bison. Or those who go over the barriers to get that "extra special" shot with their cell phone.

....

In so many ways nature photography is like fishing. There are those who are more about the gear than technique and skill. And those who won't shut up and fish. And those who crowd you on the river.

@Toby I wasn't using the big lens at the Space Centre, just the wide angle as it was a big scene - there was also one other photographer patiently waiting as well but since my patience was growing thin I was the one that spoke up
I have also met some cool people in my travels but always forget to take my cards with me - they are usually in my bag in the trunk of my car - I forget to put some in my camera bag, so I will remember from now on
Not everyone is loud and rude but I still prefer solitude, that's what I'm there for after all - in nature sometimes you have to sneak up on the animals and watch where you're walking so you can hide behind trees or crouch real low or whatever and you can't do that with a group traipsing around and my favorite place has real early morning walkers and evening walkers, so sometimes it works for me and sometimes it doesn't

Absolutely lovely shot of the tree swallows, Kathleen. You done good despite the disadvantages!

If I'm photographing a bird or something not so easily seen, I've been known to pretend I'm just standing around when I hear somebody approaching so they don't know the bird is even there and walk on by. That's what I did when I was photographing this mother hummingbird sitting on a nest, and later, her babies. Although the nest was at eye level and right on a trail, about half a dozen people walked by while I was photographing (and with a tripod for a change) and they never saw a thing.

Crystal,
This is one of the shots I did get right after they left... it was almost dark by then. I was shooting the lighthouse behind me and on down the beach... but I wanted the water hitting the groin with all the sunset colors. They were standing right in front of it... they would have been in this shot. They took the kid right in front of me and let him down in the water. There was someone fishing on the other side that was there before I got there. I literally had just framed the shot and poof they were there. I was talking out loud... and my husband was telling me that I don't own the beach.... lol. My point is, we had timed this perfectly - rode out there to get the shot, and were lucky the beach was practically empty... and then here they come! Oh, well...

Debra,
Cool story. I need to remember that. I just get so mad when I think people are being rude. I'm fixing to go to the mountains during the fall... and I know there are going to be lots of people! I know now I'm going to get frustrated...

Peggy, I've used your strategy to pretend I'm not seeing anything worth photographing when people walk by. If you are aiming at something everyone needs to find out what it is. Love your shot of the beautiful little hummer!

I've found that most Tourons don't venture far from trail heads because of the effort involved so going in even a couple miles drastically weeds out that element but there will inevitably be a pack of high energy 20-somethings who blast through. If they are young males, they pass by fast because there's a competitive element. They're gone quickly but their energy freaks out wildlife.

Cathy, I know I'll be frustrated too but I'll take the advice of some of the pros here and find ways to make the best of frustrating situations. Sometimes these frustrating situations turn out OK. A couple winters ago I was camped near Whitewater Draw in southern Arizona. I arrived just before a snowstorm and spent glorious days alone there because no one else wanted to be there in that kind of weather. It was miserably cold at night but very beautiful. There were thousands of cranes and many other species of birds. When snow began to melt, birders congregated. I've found that birders and bird photographers are the most considerate people to share space with so I didn't mind being among them. At some point an elderly tourist couple arrived. They weren't birders or photographers, they just happened by and wanted to see what was there. For whatever reason, they adopted me and followed me everywhere while I was trying to work, asking me to identify every bird they saw and basically talking the entire time. They were really nice so I couldn't be rude but I wasn't there to chit chat and I get pretty ticked off even when friends try to talk to me when I'm working. After an hour or so I was getting really frustrated because I'd been trying to get clean shots of a very wily bittern who was pretending to be a cattail among cattails and I couldn't get a decent shot. Way tired of Ma and Pa's incessant questions and uncooperative birds so I was about to pack it in when they finally left. About 10 minutes later, Pa came rushing back to tell me he'd seen something that looked like that bird I wanted. I followed him over to the edge of another pond and sure enough, Pa had found me a bittern. The bird was only a few feet away, patiently posing in plain sight. I got my shots and made Pa's day!

Not long after, I was shooting an historic building in my old stomping grounds along the coast. When I got back to the truck, a couple who reminded me of Ma and Pa were parked next to me. Pa saw my camera and asked if I got some good shots. They told me they were from a town near where I live now and said they've never been to the coast before. They were really excited to be there. I saw that he had a nice camera with a long lens. When they said they were heading north, I gave them directions to a couple of my favorite public places along the ocean to get good wildlife captures. They were so grateful that I was willing to share and I felt like I'd returned the favor to Ma and Pa.

Kathleen,

I do like to talk and get to know strangers out on my adventures. Most the time I only really get angry/frustrated is when I feel like they are doing it on purpose... and what I'm doing isn't important. I did a lot of still life with shells on the beach and even in front of the waves breaking on the beach in front of our motel. This was something I did a good bit on our last trip (when the hubby went fishing). I usually went for it when the beach was empty. However, a few times I had people strike up a conversation about what I was doing. I am a people person and enjoy it. I had people that didn't want to walk in front of a shell I had layed out... and I really didn't mind... go ahead, you aren't bothering me. It is the ones that I feel like do it on purpose. I enjoy the people for the most part. New adventures.

Several people mentioned the kids... yep... that can get on my nerves too. I think people have the mentality today that everything kiddos do is cute. I was at Ocracoke with a mother Mallard and her babies... but, I couldn't get a decent shot.... because someone thought it was cool to let her 3 year old chase the ducks all over the place and watch them scream. It is a respect for nature thing. Oh, well... I still tried though, and waited them out until they gave up and left. I'm the same way though seeing kids playing rough with kittens or puppies... ouch, poor babies!