Redoing Painting And Need Advice

hmm the trees at the back look bland too

I'm not sure about the placement of the group of sheep just above the dog - they look a little bit too 'lined up' to me, if you see what I mean. Just a thought...

Abbie, I am on my phone so this is small. I really like this painting as is. My feeling is if I you make the background busier, it will take away from the foreground. That is where the focus should be.

Abbie - yes - compared with some of your other work - this is rather bland. I'm not sure you can turn it into the action and feel of "Yearling In Storm". The colts seem more not ruffled by the dogs, just curious perhaps. And so the painting is what it is - I might would repaint the whole picture on a new canvas if you want to get rid of the static feel.

Hi Roy :D It is called The Conversation so they are not meant to be ruffled by her :D They are chatting. Yes, it is bland and I wondering if I should introduce a little more colour. I had hardly any paints when I did this so the palette was exceptionally limited even with mixing

I may tone down the trees at the back even more and then fluff up the grass at the front

Hi Jane, thanks ... I took a photo in the Peak District and just copied them so they are as-is... perhaps an added lamb veering off may help that bit

Thank you Janice..yes, I think you are right.... foreground it is then

could be the photo but overall seems a little dark. you might run it through a photo editor and change it to black and white to see where you might add light and dark to up the contrast.

I think this is sweet Abbie! I wouldn't call it bland. It is a peaceful encounter between these animals. I am not sure you want more sky or busier sky. You know what I mean? I just think you need to pull the darkest part of the sky to the trees and have it fade to lighter at the top of the painting. Keeping the focus on the dog and horse...not the sky. And I think Jane is right about the group of sheep...they could be removed...or push them way back just slightly larger than the sheep in the distance...so we know they are sheep but very far away.

I watched one time a deer and a cat greet each other in this way and your painting reminded me of it

Kim, yes it is dark here for real so I will try that, thanks

Hi Val! I really like my sheep :( It was the only area I was truly happy with ROFL. I will see what I can do

I actually like the piece as is. However, if there is one thing I would do, is to lighten up the face and head of the horse on the right. It's not that you need to add detail, just a soft light.

Thank you! I will have a go at that

Nicely done horses! I would fix the sky as you said and then assess, that might be all you need. I just noticed the grass where the horses and dog are is darker than the background maybe lightening/brightening it up would cause my eye to go to the subjects more instead I tend to look behind them where the sheep are.

Beautiful Abbie... All I see that I would change would be the sky and tree-line. Because of the muted colors used throughout, it looks like either a grey day or a stormy day. The sky in my thoughts would have to stay the color that it is and just smooth out some of the busy clouds or grey it like a completely overcast day. The trees are the perfect color for this but I would soften the edges of them just a tad. Other than that, I love the grass and sheep just as they are.

absolutely love this composition

I always check my paintings with black and white to make sure I have very distinctive value zones for my work, There should at least be (3) 1.sky 2.ground 3 foot hills or trees
When I apply the black and white filter on your image it appears that everything takes on the same value with the exception of the dark tree in the background. The darkest tree should be the closest as we can see darker more vibrant color with detail the closer an object gets. the further away an object the more muted and less details as the atmosphere distorts it. Make these values distinct and it will bring the painting out of 2nd dimension and into 3rd.

pay close attention to the horses coat as they normally have a sheen on them and give off a lot of reflective light. The legs right off look like they need to reflect thier shadowy areas a little stronger and definitely their reflective or secondary highlights.

the dog needs a shadow zone as he looks a bit like a cutout. It appears the sun is coming from the left so almost the entire front of him should be in shadow and paint a little reflective light on the area to show some detail and give it that 3d look.

The trees need skyholes where it looks like the sky is peeking in through the various bald spots of the trees. Also a neat trick is to every so gently blend the tops of the trees in with the sky. It will give that far away look and clean up the edges.

Abbie,

This is a difficult photo to really see up close. I went to your profile and the one you have up is really dark and I can't zoom in -

I have ideas that I think would end up being minor fixes.

As a general rule, trees in the foreground should be more colorful and detailed than those father away in the background ... those should be darker and little to no details. The same applies to the grass. I'd like to see the grass in the foreground more detailed and brighter. It looks taller, lifeless (compared to the background grass) and blurry to me in this photo.

When I look at the trees on the right I think it's a sunnier day and on the left, an overcast or cloudy day. Since I like the colors of the trees on the right, I'd like to see you add more color to the trees in the foreground on the left... if you are going to make it a cloudier day, then I think you need to tone down the brightness of your greens of the trees on the right.

I agree with Phyllis that the sky should be smoother with less business. Overall, I think the sky could be lightened up, even if it's a cloudy day. I think the darkest blue is too dark, even for a cloudy day.

Overall, I really like this painting and certainly a view I'd love to see through my windows ... a lovely, serene scene!

--Donna Proctor

Phyllis spot on. It was a drizzly misty day originally so the whole sky was overcast. I thought that looked dull and tried to make it spring/summer but it didn't work.

Melissa, yes, Carrie was put on afterwards and I need to bring her out more in line with the two yearlings.

Donna, yes, even though a dreary day the sky was actually a lovely pale grey in reality. I should have just let it alone lol

Suzanne, thank you :).

Thank you every one So so much.

Just got in from a longggggggg walk near a river with the puppies and we are all damp and muddy so shower and then painting :)

I just noticed that you cannot see all my flowers in the photo..... It really IS darker than the actual painting

Abbie - I just went back and looked at the one you have listed for sale . . . is that an animal to the far right next to the horse? Sadly, I can't tell in either photo - but in the other one I think I see feet? :( That's the blurry area I mentioned... and also the space between the dog and horse.

Agreed - I cannot see the flowers very well in either picture. I'm guessing the one you have listed is very dark compared to the actual painting, too.

Hi Abbie - this is going to turn out really sweet.
Now that Melissa put it in gray scale , I can see better the areas where it feels off to you.

The top of the sky, and the skyline where it meets the trees above the horses head - all compete for attention.

The action of interest is between the pup's & the filly's muzzle.

Picture a U or V shape placed over your painting. All areas in the V pointing down to your area of Interest. Soften everything from the top of the V - & out of those lines.
Soften ( & push back) tree lines above the heads - sharper detail in pup's muzzle up into the filly's blaze & eyes..
& you got a real winner here.

They picture doesn't pull you in. It doesn't have a good balance. Your eyes are automatically drawn to the horse looking at the dog. Make the sheep look to the upper right to make your eyes look at more of the painting,,

Thank you Donna and Janine!

Thanks Steve, posting as I was lol

for starters it needs foreground interest, yellow flowers or some kind of flowers in the front under their feet. some longer grass to separate the animals as well. part of it is also the shadow. the light seems to be coming in from the above left, the dog would be darker below the chin. partly the lighting seems flat in this. like there should be highlights on the grass forming small hills. i can't see the large one, but the eyes could use a sparkle. the animals lack shadows underneath. and i'm wondering if the scale is accurate. the trees in the back could use orange highlights to go with the horses, not autumn, but just some kind of color. for the sky, i would create more of a cumulonimbus type cloud. something puffy with shape, it would brighten it up, while adding depth.

---Mike Savad

Yes, the blur at the horse's socks is bothering me ( may just be your photograph)
Tall blades of grass pointing in the direction of the muzzles - to anchor the horses IN the grass.
Yellow or white flowers - good idea.

A better shot would help us immensely. As I see it now, you haven't created enough depth from fore to middle to back grounds via color fading and graying. If the sky and trees are as stong in hue and value as the foreground, you've failed in producing believable depth.
The horizon line is uncomfortably right at the horse's back.
Also, too many things to look at...what do you want the center of interest to be? Once that is determined, eliminate all else.

Wow, I was going to say, "forget about it!" But, the artists here really know how to critique and make one's work better. This was a very interesting thread...surprisingly! All I can say is it's amazing and please don't change it too much. The part that makes this painting interesting is the interaction between species. I think the expressionistic but almost realistic value works for me. The blur or dark of this and that, doesn't bother me at all, but then it might affect a lot of country type decorators. It's best to create work that will sell so everyone's advice is crazy good!

Hi Abbie, I didn't read any of the above as I wanted to remember what I felt. The sky seems to bear down a bit. If you lighten it from the horizon up, it should help with aerial perspective. Also, you could then pare down the vegetation behind the lovely larger horse's head so that it is above the horizon, framed by the sky. It is a lovely painting expressing symbiosis.

Joan Hartenstein

First of all, it's a darling encounter that we're getting to witness.

Now, just thinking as a photographer ... and this might seem a bit out there, but remember we're being photographers for a minute ... what you might want to give some thought to is keeping the dog and the horses as your only focal point. Eliminate the sheep, eliminate or make very subtle the rocks and trees in the background ... in other words, think shallow dof. Yes, I'd lighten the faces and necks of the horses, and I'd make the sky more dreamy. But keep the dog and horses crisp and popping. Since you have the ability to play with photo editing tools, you can monkey around without even putting brush to canvas to see if this idea will take you where you want to go. Not sure about the greens of the grass and blues of the sky ... I'd be tempted to try subtle, subtle, subtle and really pop the colors on the animals.

First off, very nice painting.

In my opinion the fix is really simple. The only issue I see is that the trees may have a little bit too much detail and they are fighting for attention with the animals. The animals are the focal point and subject of the painting so the trees should serve really only as a background piece. I would make them a little bit more blurry with an Impressionistic feel so they are not fighting for attention with the animals. This would make the animals "pop out" better.

That's the only thing I would change and even if you don't, it still looks good the way it is.

--Roz Barron Abellera

I have only read a few of the other suggestions. I've always like this one! Anyway, I took my hand and blocked out the horse on the right, and the composition immediately improved. Contrary to what other better artists and painters may say (I'm not a painter), I personally adore a flat look. This seems to be between flat and having depth. Well, you know which I'd prefer. Have FUN !! That's the main point, right?

I'll second Joan's suggestion of reducing the treeline so the horse's head has sky behind it or bring the treeline up so his ears aren't in the tips of the trees. Also a yes to softening the depth of field and a yes to some flowers in front....I like the sheep in back fine, explains why the dogs are there in the field.

edit: I clicked on the image in your gallery and at that size it's a little hard to tell those are sheep but I think the sheep add to the comp.

Oooh, I just clicked on your Gallery image - it really is rather sweet !

& now I am not so sure if I would do too much of anything at all.

I think your painting is just fine with one exception if I may be so bold. Yes, I would definitely lighten the sky. I would also darken the forground beneath the animals feet. The trees and shrubery in the background are attracting too much attention, I would soften them. I hope I have not been over critical but you did say please help. The theme of your picture is beautiful.

I have read the comments of the others above but I think if you take all their criticism seriously there will be nothing left of your picture. We are all quick to comment but how much is helpful? I believe my comments to be helpful because my criticisms won't rearrange your picture so much that you don't recognize it. Subtle changes are all you really need.

You've got a good focal point, the sky is only taking up a third of the painting, and the colors are good. Do watch the form of the horses.
It only has to read right to the viewer, however, horse people can tell if the artist doesn't know horses.
Places to be sure to get acurrately: the ears, the back leg joints, the mouth, and the eyes. Only needs to be accurate to the level of reading properly. All seems to be fine, but the back leg joints of the horse on the left. Look at your reference photos again. I'm sure it's just a minor adjustment.

Thank you everyone. I have lightened the sky and played with the trees.... Hold on I will get a photo

Abbie,
the technicals I see are mostly light related. The left side seems to be your light source, but your sky is darker on the left. Shadows cast by the animals and treeline, and streaking across your terrain will give greater depth, interest, and eye-movement. Don't forget that shadows are normally composed of the complementary color of the subject not just dark.

The 3 sheep above the dog float for me. It could be size or just how lighted (or the internet), but you might also try and move the group more left to give better eye-draw and movement. Try the light changes first before you move them.

I'd also probably do something to the background to make it more intimate feeling and push the eye forward to your point-on-focus. Frame with subtle color and light around the focal point of the dog and horse interchange area. Maybe a warmer sky (be sure to adjust your shadows length to time of day you pick. I don't know what your knowledge is in color theory but did a quick search and this might be useful: https://watercolorjournal.wordpress.com/tag/do-warm-colors-advance-and-cool-colors-recede/

The posing and expression are wonderful.

I think this is one of your best works yet. You've broken some new ground, keep going.
-- mary ellen anderson

Thank you Mary :)

I really honestly do not want to move the sheep. They are the only part of the thing I love. I know what people mean about floating but I have to find another way. I cannot paint them the same as I have there, they took me ages

However, the more I am doing here the more I hate the whole painting and feel I have badly screwed it up. I may have to paint over the stupid thing and paint something else LOL

Sorry about the REALLY bad photography, it is 11pm and my bright light is on

what you can do is, put this in photoshop and sketch ideas over it, as a rough draft, then mess with it. or forget about editing old stuff and just make new things.

---Mike Savad

Be still Abbie. : )

Sky looks superb , very nice softening of the trees. Good depth, not competing.

I don't believe any of these comments were meant to be a "critique" - just a simple what we would do.
& there you have it - information overload. 30 Artist's hands in the pot.

But it is YOUR image. Sit back, walk away - & let it speak to you.

Pointless to trash - give your buyer a chance to enjoy.

I love those sheepies.

Raffai said, "Subtle changes are all you really need."

I agree with him. If you do too much you'll probably end of up feeling overwhelmed with it.
Don't paint over it Abbie - make minor/subtle changes. It's a wonderful painting so don't scrap it!

I like the new sky much better than the original :)

The dog is kinda floating and it and the horses feet andl legs have no shadow. So says the beginning painter. Thanks for puttingit out there. Learning so much from the responses

Please do not trash this. It's a lovely warm scene. Don't lose yourself in the process. Keep what you love.

Tomorrow is another day. Look at it in the daylight.

I just wanted to quickly say that, people keep saying the horses have no shadow. They had no shadow in the reference photo either. That is why there is none in the painting as it is correct.

I am leaving it now and will go to it when awake after allergy desensitisation hour :(

Much better Abbie. The grayed sky also picks up the grays in the puppy and horses.

because it was overcast that day. but the horses backs have light, and if you add light you have to add shadow to balance it. or they look like they are floating. same thing applies in digital art. if there is a light source there is usually a shadow of some kind. it would add depth to it.

---Mike Savad

Actually the light is as it was in the photo and there was no shadow... I'm leaving that bit as is. I do appreciate the help though ... Just it's as it is meant to be that bit.

"However, the more I am doing here the more I hate the whole painting and feel I have badly screwed it up. I may have to paint over the stupid thing and paint something else LOL"


No way. Don't do that. It's good to go. The changes you made are good. Marvelous painting.


--Roz Barron Abellera

Your first instinct was right, changing the sky made all the difference. You have a beautiful and peaceful painting. Done.

no, no dont get rid of it. Not with all the time and thought youve put into it...

I might try cropping some of the sky, maybe a third of it. I think it would create a more pleasing composition,
changing the horizon line. Scroll it to the top of your computer screen to see.

As it is now it somehow seems to my eye to be fighting with, even though it is just the sky, negative space in a sense,
with the focus of the painting, the horses and dogs. This would allow the attention in this case to focus more naturally
and easier there. Maybe this is one thing subconsciously bothering you about the painting.

Abbie I like that painting just as it is! But I know zilch about painting so don't listen to me. The horses and the dog and the sky all remind me of a day at the farm. But, still I would leave it alone, and do another one.

Mike,
That's an interesting idea of doing purposed editing in digital. What software would one use to do something like that (I know nothing about digital)?
-- mary ellen anderson

Melissa is right, Abbie.

If an image does not have good tonal values in black and white, it's not going to look good in colour. The tutorial starts at the 4:08 mark. Grab a cuppa and enjoy - guaranteed you'll learn something.

Hard to tell in a photo but picking up some of the ground colors in the sky might perk it up a bit similar to the way the impressionist work. Nice work!

Abbie,
I wouldn't count on a photograph being correct in lighting (or really even form). Photography distorts things and flattens stuff. In painting, then you have to disconnect from the photograph after a point and imagine the scene again; then paint that image. Maybe try painting from memory. If your logic and memory thinks there should be shadows, then the hell with the photo; you will be right not the photo.

But take your real German Shepard (doesn't matter that the breed isn't the same) and start shining strong and weak light source on him/her, and add that knowledge to your painting. Put a lantern out on a high point in the field and see how it crosses the terrain. You don't want a copy of a photograph, you want to paint the reality before the photograph. Just because you took the photo at high sun doesn't mean you can't paint the scene at midnight (with time and experience).

I like the sky tones better (but I like the horse and foreground colors better in the earlier version). Use your lightest sky tone in a thin graze very finely (almost like an outline) over the scene how your seeing light would touch the objects. (sorry it's hard to write what you'd normally demonstrate). Don't blend this in much (no gradient). Let the views eye fill in the blend - it will.

If you want to do light study than landscapes are the advanced course. There's a reason we all paint so many still lifes - lol. They are always light studies. But I'd put away the photo and start trying to see what's in your head. If not sure don't reference the photo, reference reality. How the dog or horse you actually are shining a flashlight (not the best light source) on in darkness. Actually go outside and do research the photo can't give you.

Give yourself lots of time and be patient. Without a photo guide it's going to take awhile for you to get past it to the image in your head/heart. I live with my WIP, propping them up in the kitchen while I'm cooking and eating or working and just study them (sometimes for weeks) casually in passing before I get my paints out and start editing. I started painting almost pre-photography so I don't even think about how it looks as a photo, but it not the 'correctness' you're thinking it is. Look with your own eyes and memory, not a lens.

-- mary ellen anderson

Thanks everyone...I'm now in overload. I will close this now as I was happy with most of it before I asked and now hate it. Not your fault!! You are dealing with a insecure nutcase when it comes to my work so ignore me lol

A huge thank you to all, sincerely x

I have taken all the advice and will try it on my next painting