Selling Originals To Somebody In Luxembourg

Use paypal to create an invoice ( you just fill in some information and the invoice is ceated for yo, looks great!) ...when the customer gets it, he pays with his credit card....all very easy and neat for both parties...and congratulations!

Okay thank you!

Does the buyer also need a Paypal account then?

Good advice Marlene! Also, Heidi, be sure that the buyer is legit and not some scam where they suddenly say they will pay you more...then you return a fee back to them somehow. Or they will arrange shipping, you pay upfront, then they return money to you....all a scam! Check all that very carefully. Good luck .....on your sale1

No they don't, Heidi..they can pay the invoice in one of several options...but since they suggested credit card, i only mentioned that choice.

Thank you very much Mary and Marlene,

Mary, I'm very careful, with these things.

Marlene, Okay thank you. I have been checking this on Paypal. They do say I have to change this in my profile settings on Paypal, that it's optional for buyers to make a Paypal account or not when they pay something. I can't find this setting in my profile anywhere. Do you know how this works?

On PayPal, I recall it being very easy to set up and send an invoice. Hit "Send & Request" at the top of your account page, then "Create invoice" over to the right side of the new page that pops up and then start filling out the information. All you really need is a name and e-mail address of your buyer.

Well done Heidi! Great advice from Mary though.. be very aware of scams.

Okay, thank you very much.

What I was wondering. Until now I have only paid with Paypal, I have never received money through Paypal. I just clicked 'I want to receive money through Paypal' and then they let me change my Paypal account into a business account. Is this necessary?

Sorry for all the questions but I'm completely new at this.

I've invoiced once through PayPal & I don't remember having to change anything. I sent the invoice, they paid, and PayPal took something like a $3.50 processing fee out of their payment. Good luck with it, Heidi!!!

Heidi.. please read this!
http://www.kathleenmcmahon.com/info/scammer-names.html

And this is the thread it came from!
http://fineartamerica.com/showmessages.php?messageid=2035377

Heidi, no need to open a business account once you received the payment all you need it to set it up to transfer the fund to your bank account.

If this is too much hassle and you do not want a business account yet, Tell them (dont ask) to do a SWIFT or EBAN bank transfer. Safe for you and you get the same cover. They cannot withdraw any money again, it is checked upon input and the money goes direct into your bank account.

Do not accept a credit card. Paypal or Swift (bank transfer) only

However, you do not need to do any of that, just tell them your Paypal email and they can pay you direct with their card without being a member

Thank you Barry,

I find it a bit scary. He did ask for the prices of my work for example. He copied and pasted the exact descriptions of the artwork he found on my website, and the prices were right there. And then he did ask for the prices. I found that a bit strange. But everything else feels okay.

He told me he doesn't trust Fedex, UPS or any of those, he wants me to ship it through Transfreight Global Express.

I did search his name on google but didn't find anything.

How do I ever know if this is a scam or not?

If he pays me with his credit card on Paypal, and I transfer the money into my bank account, can he still take the money back? So that I have red numbers on my Paypal account? Or is it safe as soon as I take the money out of my Paypal account.

I know I have to be careful, but if he is a true costumer I don't want to lose this sale. How do you ever know for sure?

Paypal is the safest way. If you've Googled him and all is well, then go with your instinct. Again...Well done! Your work is superb. :-)

i'm thinking this is a scam since he already has a shipper in mind. i would do it as a check and make sure it totally clears, and it's for the amount you asked. and if they send more - tell them, no, i want this amount, because the way it works is, they send you a check or something for way too much and ask for the difference. they could probably call it back on a credit card as well and report it stolen. you could make a direct deposit account and have them send it right to the bank, it's a one way door. or a bank check for the exact amount. make sure you know the money is good with cash on hand when you get to the bank, then send it ups or such because you can track the shipment.

to send a few sketches, you don't need a freight company.


---Mike Savad

So when he pays with his credit card through Paypal (even when he does have a Paypal account), he cannot take the money back anymore? after I put the money in my bank account?

There's no chance that I end up with red numbers on my Paypal account?

i looked up that company and scammer

http://glassmagazine.com/glassblog/warning-fake-shipping-company-scam oddly that term didn't totally come up, but it feels like this deal.


---Mike Savad

Here is the website for the shipper....does it look legit to anyone?
not to me....just a website thrown together with one FB like, hidden e mail addresses.
Sorry, but I don't buy it.
Heidi, you tell him which shipper you use...that is the only way to proceed IMO. You will find out soon enough if it is legit.

http://transfreightglobalexpress.com/

I agree, that website for the shipper is very suspicious. Proceed with caution.

I did contact the shipper and they did send me a quote. The buyer wanted everything covered with insurance on top of it, so the shipping costs are insane high, the same amount almost as the artwork together.

Man, I find this difficult. I am going to be very careful here.

Can I post the first emails the buyer send to me? So that you can you can take a look along with me? Or is this a wrong thing to do?

Shippers website looks very dodgy... I could have knocked that together on my lunchbreak!

You could post excerpts of the e-mail... just don't include any personal details

Heidi - you can post those e-mails here - just be sure to XXX out his personal name & email address.

If this is a legit transaction - you wouldn't want to potentially embarrass someone .

anyone that would choose that font to look like a pro - must have hired a teen to make it. the domain expired

if you want to contact them it goes to a different site - info_packagelabels@hush.com ?
or you can use another email transfreightglobal@execs.com ?

they created the site in may of this year
http://www.whois.com/whois/transfreightglobalexpress.com this is the who is.

the address lines up there, but i couldn't find it on google maps, maybe i'm programming it wrong.

i would start by questioning where they found you, but this has scam written all over it, and follows that guide i posed to a T


---Mike Savad

This is his first message, he contacted me through my website:

*******************************************

Hi there,

Nice Artwork,your work is okay for me to beautify my home.
I would like to purchase an item from your Artworks,But I don’t know if you ship internationally to Europe mainly LUXEMBOURG .
I will be more than happy if you acknowledge my request and If there is any problem processing this request please inform me immediately as to look elsewhere
Sincerely,
Elliot

*******************************************************************

Then the second email after I asked him what he's interested in.

***********************************************************************

Thanks for the urgent response, I want you to get back to me with the price of each pieces listed bellow:

Squirrel Dangling From Tree
A pencil drawing on quality paper
235 mm x 310 mm
400 CAD / 265 EUR

Dolphins & Bubbles
A coloured pencil drawing on high quality paper
650 mm x 500 mm
630 CAD / 450 EUR


Violin Scroll
Pencil drawing on high quality paper
380 mm x 340 mm
800 CAD / 525 EUR.

I will be looking forward for availability and price of the above work,
I would appreciate if you could fulfil my order,then you can have my credit card number to run the payment

Sincerely,

*********************************************************************************

He always has his home address at the end too. After that we takes about shipping companies, I brought up Fedex, UPS etc, he didn't want those, he wanted Transfreight Global Express.

What do you all think of his emails?
I found it weird that he asked for the prices while the prices are all there.

funny, my noscript shows this site is really called - website-start.de - so even the url is forwarded and fake.

got the town, it directs me to a flying school, and there's a small museum there. no signs showing a shipping company.

---Mike Savad

that freight company looks fake, it has no way to contact them if you wanted to ship with them (after all the scammer makes the arrangements for you), and the site was just made, and it's incomplete. i would vote on scam.

ask for a bank check for the exact amount. and insist on using fedex, so you can track it. if they refuse. oh well. i would ask where they found you though, but to me, this sounds like a scammer. you'll be out the money and the art.


---Mike Savad

"I would appreciate if you could fulfil my order,then you can have my credit card number to run the payment"

This line says it all!..... fulfill the order..then he will pay???? I'd say scam too.

Thank you for all your effort Mike. Man, I almost fell for it.

The man contacted me first through my contact page on my website. But how he found my website I don't know. I have a lot of exposure on Facebook lately.

I did contact the shipping company and received a quote back from them.

As I understand it via many here who have more experience, first the money, then you will fulfill his order.

the good news is, your art is getting out there and people have heard of it, or recognize it as being good enough to steal. because if it wasn't good, i don't think the scammer would contact you. anyone that comes to me with a deal, i treat them as a scammer first, until i can prove otherwise.

my favorite scam is:

i would like to buy some of your art. can you tell me what website it's on.


---Mike Savad

The fact that they named a shipping company to use is a major red flag. I checked out the web site for that company and it looks pretty lame. Out of focus stock type photos. And the worst is that the domain name for the shipper is Hush.com. Hushmail seems like it is set up for shady dealings. Be very careful .This smells like a scam.

Usually the scammers tell you that they are buying the work for a cousin or friend to be shipped overseas. Recently, I was hit with a run of scams which wanted "to purchase my art." A repeated format was used where each painting was followed by a series of questions--the last of which was "what is your price?" (though the price is indicated in the website page). When I said $850, plus shipping costs, the interested quickly responded "your price was reasonable," but never said where the work was to be shipped.

This string or purchase requests was continous, arousing my suspicion. Finally, when a question of price came up for another painting, I replied, $19,900 plus sales tax, plus shipping costs--though the website indicated a purchase price of just $900. Within 1 minute I recieved a return email, saying that "your price is reasonable..." I think the next time when this phantom scammer wants to buy a painting, my price will go up to $999,000, plus tax and shipping--I could be left a millionaire!

The point is, I believe all of this is for some kind of circumvention of Pay Pal--I don't know how--whereby the scammer seeks security and identity theft, and is not interested in "stealing" the art.

By the way, one know scammer, notorious on various sites, is a Sohphie Farmer. Any suspicions names or circumstances can be found simpl by googling the identity--sometimes a history pops up.

This is why I love belonging to FAA. ' Hats off' to all you wonderful folks who rush in to help a fellow artist. You're the best.

What Barry said above!! It has "scam" written all over it!

Heidi, be very careful, I'm very sure that this one is a SCAM! As soon as the wording is: "Nice Artwork,your work is okay for me to beautify my home. " it is the wording of scammers! So sorry, but true! I've gotten those and can usually spot the "off English expressions" in the first few words! Be cautious. Just say you want cash up front by certified check at the correct amount(which has to clear your bank before you ship, and you handle the shipping!) and see if they can handle that!

Heidi, I am sorry about the scam, but your work is beautiful.

Thank you all very much. Without you I would definitely have shipped my artwork. I have autism and find it extremely difficult to recognize these things.

The only problem is now....how do I know if a buyer is for real?

For example. There is a woman who wants to buy my new elephant drawing. She is from Facebook. She asked a lot of questions about my drawing (the scam guy didn't). I do have the feeling that she is trustworthy, but how do I know for real?

Well, she could be interested and still not buy anything. I have four or five people on Facebook who have told me they are buying something... and so far, nothing. These folks mean well, but sometimes life gets in the way.

However, a real buyer typically will not give you the run around and will go on and pay you. Pay Pal is still a great idea for when a real buyer comes along.

Good luck. I feel rotten that this person was apparently a scammer.

Don't be discouraged or nervous.....you are learning the 'red flag' ropes of the selling process. Some people never learn because they do not pay attention. First up, always say paypal only and ups, usps or fedex only....if they agree, move forward...send an invoice, when the money is paid and guaranteed, then you ship, never before. You'll be fine...your drawings are masterful!

Heidi,
This happen to all artists, here is the one I go today:
Thank so much for your response am okay with your final asking price but the problem is that i have a private shipping company that will come for the pick up in your location because i have some item that i want to ship along with the paiting so i don't want you to bother yourself about the shipment am going to handle that on my own if you agree my terms let me know and get back to me.
Carolyn.
and my reply was:
Most excellent! please have your shipper bring the payment in cash and we can do a exchange in person. I will have tea ready!
no more respond from her.

LOL, Alfred! Too funny, esp. the tea!

Alfred, hat's a funny response from you to the scammer!

The woman from Facebook asked me if she could pay me with Paypal immediately. I think she is trustworthy.

Thank you everybody very much!

usually you have to go with your gut. it doesn't hurt to do some research on them. look for their name, email, address, phone, etc and see if that checks out. like we looked at that freight company and well it doesn't look real and it probably isn't. if they have wording look that up.

like in the above, they listed your works with the price - then asked for the price.

usually my patter is - i ask how they found me, which work exactly are they interested in- this will tell me what site they viewed, and it wasn't just any old artwork. then i do a lot of research to see where else their name, or address came up. (usually this is for an agent more than anything else). i want to see if they are scammers or real. if they say they've been around for a while, but there is no content, their web page was just put up, if they have a yahoo or google email, or it's a plain email, but not used any place on the net. its a red flag. you'll get agent requests too at some point, so i'm mentioning it here - be sure to ask for their contract by the way.

i don't have originals, i toss those requests out unless they are rather specific when they write to me.

---Mike Savad

Heidi, Always ask questions from the buyer. note most buyers won't start with a multiple purchase unless it's an in person sale. Anything sent about a purchase through e-mail I always ask for full name, address, phone number, and e-mail. then i check if it's a real person on line as well as google world map for the address. Had to do this even for a lawyer found the London address was a fake but the lawyers name was used with out his knowledge. as for a facebook inquiry ask how they found you as well (is it a friend of someone you know?) You have great work and would be an easy ship by upps sandwiched between foamcore. Main thing is whenever they want terms on how to pay,or how to ship, it's a scam so is buying multiples, and asking for price when price is already posted (all artists should post their prices for that reason alone.) Good luck with your fine art and smart of you to ask when in doubt.

Heidi,
It's not rude in business to NOT trust till you've been paid, either as an employee or self-employed. It's not either parties fault (hopefully) that there are crooks out there, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. Keep it very simple for yourself, have a strict policy of FULL VERIFIED payment before you give up any work. If your unsure if the fund are final in your account, call your banker and get confirmation. Whether it's your shipper, theirs, or a local pick-up, the expense is theirs and the same verified upfront payment.

I also have a line in my invoices somewhere, that any credit balances will be assumed store credits and that request for cash refunds will be issued within 30 days.

You also need to tell a customer that made the true mistake and is due a refund, that the policy isn't about you just wanting to keep their money or inconvenience them but because of the environment that is the internet that neither of you have any control over. Some people can't use their own deposited money for a week. So it's another red flag when someone tries to pressure you to trust them, most trustworthy people have accepted that they are subject to verification. It's just one of those things I've observed; the more trustworthy the less they will ask for trust. They plop down their ID without asking because they know you'll need it.

Verified payment and only then trust. It's perfectly polite and respectful.
-- mary ellen anderson

Good advice from Mike.
In general if he suggests a shipping company I'd reply and say I always use company X. See if that puts them off.

If I'm fairly sure it's a scam I say something like "what are the odds; my cousin is travelling /working near you and can meet you in person.
Cheers ,
Pa

Thank you all very much for your help and advice. I'm definitely going to use Fedex or UPS always, and Paypal. And I'm probably also going to add a professional shopping card. I didn't do that until now because I didn't really know how to do that, and things that are new to me, I often find a bit scary.

I have my website on Weebly and they do offer a real professional shopping page with Paypal check out I think.

Thank you all so much. I really feel lucky that you told me all this and that I didn't get further into this scam.

Check the home address on google maps.

I only sell originals thru etsy.com. They collect the money and when shipped transfer to my bank account.
I usually ship USPS. UPS is out of this world expensive.

Oh, I thought USPS and UPS was the same. Feel a bit like a dummy now. I thought that the UPS was called USPS in the US.

Does USPS also pick up packages at people's homes? Or do you have to go to a USPS office?

And I live in Canada, can I also use USPS then?

USPS is the US postal service, US mail. i don't know if they are in canada.
UPS is the brown truck, that silently tosses your expensive merchandise on your door and doesn't ring the bell, sometimes they sign for your packages.
FED EX is the other truck
DHL - is or was a yellow truck, they might have gone out of business.

i don't think the US mail picks up a package due to bombs being tossed in there. and UPS will pick it up if you have an account with them. otherwise you have to drop it off in a drop box or a UPS store.


---Mike Savad

Oh, I really have to start thinking about which one to use then. Maybe just the Canada Post would be best then. The UPS is not that wonderful I understand. And Fedex is extremely expensive I think.

you want something that has a tracker on it, and maybe even a signature to make sure they sign. US mail will still actually have them sign for it. where as ups and fedex lately has not. they are tight on schedule and often don't., but atleast you and the buyer can trace the package.

the cost would be paid by the buyer, but you can get fedex ground, which should be more affordable.


---Mike Savad

Okay, thank you very much Mike

heidi, any time you have a potential customer, come here and run it by us....can't speak for everyone else, but I'll always to more than happy to help you sot it out!
Hope to hear about real ones for you soon!

Okay, That's a good idea Marlene, thank you very much

Heidi, Canada post also has a special delivery with tracker you can go o line to check your package. the cost is less than FedEx and you don't need to pay for the broker charge as UPS sometimes added on. I been using it instead of FedEx and UPS.

This is a wonderful thread, thank you all for helping Heidi. I haven't sold anything yet either so a lot of questions were answered for me as well. Heidi, your work is lovely!

Thank you Alfred. I have been looking into Canada Post. They have many good options. What is a broker charge?

Hi Lisa, thank you very much for your compliments. I am so happy that all these nice people are helping me. It's really wonderful indeed.

Heidi, from what I understand, the broker charge is a fee they charge for customs clearance when shipping to other country. Whenever you sent original art to North American countries from Canada you also needed to file a form called "North American free trade agreement" because "original art" ship within those countries are not taxed. Without filing that from the receivers might have to pay tax on the art work.
you can download the form from either FedEx of UPS site.

Oh, okay, thank you very much. I'll look into that.

Fed Ex is not too terrible if you sign up for an account. Overnight is expensive, but they also have home delivery, LTL and freight options. They do pick up.

In the US, the US Post Service picks up, but their website is harder to use.

The USPS is about 20 - 30% less expensive for comparable services, but it's US not Canada. (Last I heard Canada had not agreed to become the 51st state).

I know definitely for sure now that the man who wanted to buy 3 drawings from me (in Luxembourg) is a scam. I have looked online on a blog where artists can post emails they received from scammers, and one of those emails is exactly the same, exactly the same sentences. The only thing that was different about the email was the shipping company they wanted the artists to contact.

I found it here on this blog: http://stopartscams.blogspot.ca

Thanks for the link Heidi, very useful!

I just received the same email!! Thanks for posting it saved me a lot of trouble. The email I received was worded exactly the same.

Hi Heidi, don't feel bad. I got the same scam email from Luxembourg, too! Anybody can be fooled at first. Got suspicious when the lady named Sharon Elliott (gave me her address too!) refused to use my shippers . She wanted to use her shipper . Guess who? www.transfreightglobalexpress.com . They were charging sooooo much for the shipping of 2 little paintings she could have sent me a plane ticket to hand deliver the artwork to her door . They also wanted payment by wire transfer. That's when I smelled troubles. The only things she has is my name and email . And because at her first inquiry I sent my phone number (it's on my internet web page), so I reported her and the freight Company as spam and called my phone company. They can monitor strange phone activity (like if you have an outrageous bill). When I googled her name I found a report of spam of an american woman who uses different names and different Country addresses like Luxembourg.
Thank you for posting your concerns inFineartAmerica; I am sure a lot of other artists are grateful to you for this warning.
Best for your artwork! You are doing great!
Federica

Hi Federica,

Exactly the same as me. The same name, also Sharon Elliot, but he called himself Elliot. I still want to report this name so that it's put on this blog for scams. The email addresses and the name. And the transfreightglobal. I received a quote too, and it was insane how high this was, like 1500 dollars or so. And they wanted to come up the artwork.

I'm happy that you found out that it was a scam. For me it was the first time and also very happy that thanks to all the nice people here that I didn't fall for it.

Thank you Federica,

Heidi

Thanks for sharing Heidi...wishing you much success..your artwork is absolutely stunning!
Paypal and Canada Post is the best choice!

Jolanta