Are Visits To Aw Invisible To Google?

Google can definitely see visits to our AW, because they show up in Google Analytics. Whether images go higher in the Google search as a result is another question - I don't know the answer to that one!

Gill,
If I'm understanding correctly than the issue is when you publish links than google ranks them in their search based on the popularity rate of the linked site. Therefore your AW links, that are just published by premium users, has a lower ranking in the search than FAA links of the same image.

However, now that pixels.com is going to be primary, it might be their links that are the most popular. Maybe already is and obviously most popular can change.

It gets more confusing if you have your own domain site.

-- mary ellen anderson

As Jane says, GA will see all visits to your AW site, if you have GA installed on it.

There's a slight quirk to that, in that if your AW site gets very high volume, then GA say they will give you a 'sample' of that traffic, but I dont think you will be hitting their limits.

As for the ranking, Google will eventually index your AW pages (you can even force/suggest it to visit them manually using Webmaster Tools).

The problem is, that Google doesnt like duplicate content, so it will try to filter out duplicates, and since the AW and FAA pages are pretty similar, it will try to only display one of your images.

Because FAA is a bigger and much high ranked site in Google, then most of the time the image on FAA will be linked to, rather than your AW image. That doesnt mean it will always do that, but from my experience that is what happens most of the time.

You can see that here:

If you search for one of your images: Eleanor Mustang with P51 Black and White

You get this, and it lists the FAA version of your image:

https://www.google.com/search?newwindow=1&q=site:gill-billington.artistwebsites.com+Vermin%27s+Diner+Rat+Rod+Front&tbm=isch&ei=fm7XU_DBB6qg0QWU0IHIDg#newwindow=1&q=Eleanor+Mustang+with+P51+Black+and+White&tbm=isch

If you narrow the search down to force it to search your AW site, then you will obviously get the AW link, but this is just to show it is actually in Googles index:

https://www.google.com/search?newwindow=1&q=site:gill-billington.artistwebsites.com+Vermin%27s+Diner+Rat+Rod+Front&tbm=isch&ei=fm7XU_DBB6qg0QWU0IHIDg#newwindow=1&q=site:gill-billington.artistwebsites.com%2F+Eleanor+Mustang+with+P51+Black+and+White&tbm=isch

HTHs,

Rob.

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Fantasy Art Web Site

Thank you Jane, Mary Ellen and Rob, that is so helpful to try and understand what is happening. I was just wondering, if I want to put an image on my facebook page whether it is better to put the link to the image on FAA (which does look better because its bigger) or whether to put the image link to my AW to keep people in my galleries.

Checking the GA for my AW (don't you just love these abbreviations), it seems that all but one of the latest visits have been via links from my personal site http://www.janemcilroy.com

That might suggest that search engines aren't really interested in AW, but you could look at it another way. If I didn't link to my AW myself, maybe it wouldn't get any hits at all?

Yep, I doubt you will get many if any links from Google search into your AW sites, FAA has too stronger rank for you to get past that, and it will probably remove most of the duplicates and end up with just the FAA.

The AW sites are going to be getting visitors from your direct links and marketing etc mostly, I would think.

@Gill, I generally dont use my AW site, I dont worry about people moving along to other images, they can already do that by just typing in the url bar at the top anyway or using Google, so I link most of the time to Pixels.com, so that they can also see iPhone case etc.

Thanks Rob, I may start linking to Pixels then as I've sold a few iPhone cases, they are a good little extra. How are Pixels doing in the ranking compared to FAA?

Depends on what you search for.

FAA urls are higher ranked, Google gives it a 5 at the moment.

Pixels is only on a 2, and normally doesn't rank in front of FAA for most searches.

If you add 'canvas prints' or 'posters' etc to the search terms, or just the title or keywords, then FAA will normally always rank higher.

But, since FAA doesnt sell iPhone cases, if you add 'iPhone' to the search text, Pixels is gonna rank higher.

google can't see visits to any site, they only see sites and place it their search. because the artist site is a subdomain, and an exact copy of its sister sites, it will be filed in the back. but that's only with google. bing, dog pile and others prefer the artist site to the main one. none so far led them to pixels.

i send them to FAA. it's just easier and the interface is a little more friendly. maybe the new update will make it better, i don't know. i think all the images still look like they come from FAA, so it doesn't shock me that google doesn't really look at that site.

my google analytics has been broken for some time now, i only get a blank screen. there is no one to complain too and i'm not the only one. i gave up on them. but since so very few find the art site, it doesn't matter that much.

---Mike Savad

I all but stopped linking to my AW site when Google penalized FAA for them being duplicates to our FAA pages. Before then, the AWs were on the first page, now I mostly have to dig for it. I don't think they're "invisible" but from what I see, they might as well be . . .
Everything is moving towards Pixels since it will be the "main" site in the future, which is why we are seeing iPhone covers in our tags on FAA, even if we don't sell them. Sean is trying to raise Pixels standing in Google, so ...

technically everything is in google. but it's in the back. just like technically many images are in the search here, but most are in the back. if you force a search you'll find it, but otherwise no. problem with pixels is, it's not the first site, and google prefers the first. they can call the pixels the main site, but it isn't and hasn't. i just hope they don't drop both sites. the only way to build up pixels on google is to change the entire site so it looks different and has different looking content.

zazzle has like 10 sites. different countries. each has it's own language. google will pick up all those clones because the content looks different. but we are all in english. if he could make the pixels site, with different languages, then they would probably be picked up and would then replace FAA in their search.

---Mike Savad

@ Mike - you're saying that Pixels is a mirror site to FAA and I agree with you. That was why the AWs were penalized in google search - they were mirror sites to our FAA pages.
They're still that way . . . Initially we paid for the AW but the way I understand it now - our yearly fee of $30 is really not for the AW anymore but more for the privilege of being able to have an entire port available for print. Right, zazzle didn't just clone their main site.

I think people are a little to wrapped up in the whole search thing.

You have people saying that only the very large sellers can get found in the search. Almost everyone agrees that this is the way it is for the most part.

But you still have the same people beating their heads against the wall trying to get found in the search. I don't get it.

In you marketing, no matter what you do, if you put links back to you AW, direct links to specific items, you have pretty much taken search out of the equation. If you structure the ad properly you are still in the search game but you are not as dependent on it to have your work found.

Read any newspaper, flyer, posters or any printed advertising materials. The advertiser gives his specific and detailed address. If your address is 105 East Main Street, you say located at 105 East Main Street. You don't just say located on East Main Street.

Look at the way the big anchor stores in the huge malls advertise. The don't just say located in the Town Center Mall. The say located in the Town Center Mall just off the Main Street exit. Or located at the west end of the Town Street Mall.

I had a store in a strip mall. I used to advertise my address as 1141 Oak Knolls Shopping Center, next to the bowling alley. I didn't want people have to wander around the shopping center to find me.

Same thing, I don't want people wandering around Google or FAA search to find me.

"they were mirror sites to our FAA pages. They're still that way"

That is why I created my own webpage FASGallery.net that serves as a gateway to my FAA AW and my Somerset Fine Art branded page.

First thing I did with my AW was submit it to Google.

Floyd this is where you are so lost and just don't get it.

" I don't want people wandering around Google or FAA search to find me"

The fact is that they do!!. In fact that is what Sean points to as a main selling point to the site. Despite my successful marketing of my AW, Google has me ranked very highly and gets me most of my traffic. That is true here and is true of every site i have sold from for 7 years.

"Floyd this is where you are so lost and just don't get it. "

What part of "I sell a lot of stuff here" didn't you get? I obviously must get it more then you think. lol

I didn't say I don't want to be in the search or I was not in the search, I said I don't stress out about it like so many of you do. I let it take care of itself. I use search tactics in the listing just like everyone else. I do here and every web page that I sell on. Beyond that I don't worry about it I let it take care of itself.

I am not ever going to be able to compete with some of the great artist and great sellers here in the FAA and neither is the fast majority of the individual artist. That is already proven by the huge number of people that keep complaining about the search not working. Well I have to differ, it is working, for Sean.

Google is another thing all together. You can spend you time trying to jump through Google hoops or you can send out 20,000 emails with links directly back to specific images on any one of the 12 web sites I sell on and not worry about Google controlling my sales. Or you can do pay for clicks or you can do banner ads or any number of other alternatives then just putting your future in the hands of Google (and FAA search).

The only reason I don't sell more then I do on FAA is because I do not include my AW all that much in those campaigns because I can not get the feed back that I want as to what is working and what is not.

I am glad for you and that you have figured out the search and I hope you make a billion dollars. But the vast majority have not figured it out or they would not be saying it is not working for them. I am saying there is another way to go.

I have maybe 50-60 images of Pebble Beach. in the first 4 pages of the FAA search, 119 of the 144 images were of cars, Lamborghini, Ferrari and others. These are hoods and fenders and emblems. They could have been taken anywhere. Nothing but the car part shows. No beach, no nothing but the car part. That is 82% of the images, nothing at all to do with the search term Pebble Beach.

Why would I want to subject myself to that? That is crazy!

If that is working for you Martin, good on you. But I am not playing that game and I am selling just fine. I am not putting my faith in FAA or Google search. No way. I have been selling on the net long before FAA or Google came along.

People that are not selling need to know there are other ways to go. They need to explore alternative. If beating your head against wall feels go to you. Keep doing it. But if want the pain the go away, stop doing it.

For those that have figured out the search game, more power to you.

"In fact that is what Sean points to as a main selling point to the site."

With all due respect to Sean, then he needs to back that up with the back tracking data.

As soon as I see the actual data, the proof that Google or FAA search is working the best (for me), I will go to that in a much bigger way. In the meantime I will assume that he will not mind if I use alternate methods to sell my art.

But here again, it is YOU that does not get it.

If 50,000 images a week? A month? What ever it is, are sold, and the big guys take what, at least half of them? That leaves 25,000 sales to be spread out among the other 50,000 members? How is that working for the individual? It is not!

I don't know the exact numbers so put in any numbers you want, one you think are the actual numbers or as close to it as possible. And it still does not work for the average individual artist. If it did, why are we seeing dozens and dozens of threads of people reporting zero sale or few at best?

But again, with all due respect to Sean, he is not in the business of promoting individual artist and he makes that perfectly clear.

The search is working for Sean, I already said that. Both the FAA and the Google search. And I think the business plan with the marketing he is doing (and we are doing for him) is nothing short of brilliant. Sean don't care what people find in the searchs as long as find something they like and buy it. He has weighted to in HIS favor by front loading the results of the search with the best selling artwork and artist. Nothing evil about that. But if you are not one of them, the search is not going to work for you.

Point taken Floyd. My point was never to rely on the search completely or FAA but they exist and they are important. There are artists here that market mainly through there own sites and link to a a site other than FAA for order fulfillment. They don't rely on FAA. That doesn't mean they can ignore FAA and the fact that Google is linking their art to FAA. So you have to pay attention to it.

I just uploaded some art to G+ and linked to my AW site. I could just as easily linked to my own site which, if I had order fulfillment would just link back to FAA. The fact is no matter what we do to make sales it still affects our search ranking on FAA and Google. So that affects me and how much beer money I will have next month.

To ignore it or say it is working for Sean is just not understanding the process. If it doesn't work for visitors looking for what I have, and they go elsewhere, then it is surely not working for Sean. Maybe it did, but old tricks are useless once there is new competition. Your Pebble Beach example is exactly what I am talking about. If the search does not work for visitors that would have bought your art it is not working for Sean or you. It is in fact a broken search. There are plenty of other places on the net. When people can't find my work on FAA they are not buying something else. It doesn't work that way because no one has what I have. Just like they are not buying a car image when they are looking for something more representative of Pebble Beach. If they start on Google , like most do they will hit the back button and go back to their Google search. Maybe go to a competitors site. That just helps the other sites. It all matters.

Totally agree with that Martin.