Thanks so much Andee and Menega. Yes, the search feature seldom spits out what I'm searching for very easily, and now that you mention it Andee, I think the bottom up would work better. The other thing is I am watching for ACTIVE groups - sometimes they're just what I want but when I research the dates of submissions and discussions, I can see that the activity has unfortunately died. Menega, I did not know how to search that way, cool tip, will give it a try.