Kickstarter To Fund Independently Powered Lightboxes

anyone?

thing is - the lightbox has been around for a long time. they sell these already made, it's not really a new thing. many don't want another thing with batteries. printing it on a mirror does that without any power. and most have art on a tablet.


---Mike Savad

I'm a big fan of back lit pinball machines.

ah mike, always the debbie downer..

I would have to disagree with you. You say people don't want another thing with battiers, but almost every device people have has batteries. These batteries would last like 5-10 years of CONSTANTLY being on.

In addition I did an art exhibit in toronto and many people were enthralled with them - they stated the depth of the lightboxes made the entire image appear in 3d. To my knowledge a lithium ion powered rechargeable lightbox with photovoltaic cells alternately powering it doesn't exist - and is still an interesting venue, esp. on this site where nothing like that exists. I don't know if you can speak for "many others" - you can only speak for yourself.

no, i'm more of a realistic richie.

we currently have LCD screens that sit on a table that does what you do, only they can switch to any image. it's a small screen. that would be worthy of batteries. i can't speak for others, however, realistically, people will use their phones to display art, or a tablet, or a table top or wall mount screen. a light box for a single print would work only in restaurants where many display art like that. but it would have to be way bigger.


---Mike Savad

I can make them bigger.

Also by your logic fineartamerica should just shut down then, as nobody bothers to get art anymore that isn't on their devices. The point mike is to give fineartamerica another art printing option to display their work.

If they had a lightbox option to showcase my work"I" would buy it from them, and I know many others who would too.

Also those don't hang on walls. Also the effect isn't the same, being on a computer like screen and being lit from behind give you two completely different looking effects.

people have wall hangings, but many have them on a phone. i would think that a lightbox would be a distraction if on the wall, watching tv with a giant nightlight would really be distracting. and having to turn off the art would be a drag.

this art show - did any one buy any? or did they just like it?

---Mike Savad

most just liked it, others were surprised at how cheap I was selling them for, others said they couldn't afford them. Mind you I did it during nuit rose, a gay event and a lot were young couples so I might not have been targeting the right market - they weren't really art buyers but more curious spectators - putting it in an actual art gallery in toronto would yield more conclusive results.

Also you can dim a lightbox, or have motion sensor so it can say act as a nightlight in a hallway as you go down it.

Personally I don't see it as distracting, but that is just me. My friend used to have one on the wall in her living room.. didn't find it distracting at all.. in fact I found it rather nice :)

Hey Shawn, I think it's a good idea. I played around with this idea myself and actually made some frames and printed my daughter's photos on back- lit paper. I used simple battery LEDs and it looked good. My thing was to use old barn wood for the frames. Having remote control and dimmers may enhance the appeal. The frames that currently exist in the market are expensive and most are powered with AC and the cord, to me looks ugly on a wall. Good luck with your venture.

Thank you! Yes remote control is a good idea. I am actually using canvas stretchers as the frames atm, screwing 2 together and then putting all the electronics in the back - gives a nice shadowbox effect in the front and keeps it all neatly contained in the back. I then screw the image in between the frames.

Are you talking about what everyone now calls 'digital frames,' which can be loaded with many pictures to produce a slideshow, or something more akin to a traditional lightbox, showing only one picture?

traditional lightbox, showing only one picture, but self powered.

Having your two frames that sandwich the art be hinged (hidden of course) would give the person the ability to access the work and change it out occasionally. I have been wanting to make back lit displays for all my double sided movie poster collection ( like at the theaters) but so many ideas, so little time.

you have to keep it sealed tight or the light will escape through the gaps. Also the lightbox paper is very sensitive, just touching it can remove the ink as lightbox paper doesn't absorb ink as well as regular paper does.

Shawn... if you say this type of lightbox doesn't exist already and it is your unique design.. then you might want to consider protecting it with a patent or equivalent copyright protection asap, if you haven't already done so.

it doesn't exist yet - the kickstarter is to fund money to build it. Atm it is plugged in just like all the others.

And yes I will once I successfully create it.

I saw this done several years ago when a group I belonged to toured an advertising agency photo department. The premise is much like a slide transparency with the light shining through the image. They were in various sizes. I believe they were printed on transparent material rather than a type of paper. They were absolutely gorgeous! I don't see a problem with an "always on" -- rather, I like the idea. I have a very old, beautiful stained glass window with Christmas lights mounted on the back side, hung on my living room wall and I love it -- it's on whenever it is dark enough to have lights on -- no distraction at all. I say go for it! Great idea!

thanks - the solar power will also allow it to shine during the day - they look a lot cooler during the day, especially lit :)

and yeah we can experiment with different types of printing material most likely, or maybe even transferring it to glass and being able to slot it into the lightbox, who knows :)

You're reinventing the wheel, Shawn. Clear transparency material for inkjet and laser printers has been available for many years.

find me a lightbox that can power itself then.

also it's not a matter of being available, it's a matter of everything being afforable. At this period of time costs for things such as lithium ion batteries and photovoltiac cells have decreased dramatically due to a heightened demand. What was available for years is only in some cases now becoming affordable.

then of course there is the issue of insurance that this thing won't short out and burn the house down. even a battery can do that. something to think about. still if i were to get a frame like this, i would get a small flat screen or digital frame. since it's multi use. right now you can get night lights with a print on those.

if you use specialty batteries, people will be turned off, plain AA or a 9volt should be the only battery used.

---Mike Savad

leds/pv and lithium ion have all been tested - leds barely output any heat if any - their method of exciting electrons is different. Lithium ion batteries have a valve that opens if the temperature in the room becoems excessive. This isn't like other technologies.

and LOL - dude you can't power these things with regular aa batteries, you'd get like barely any light life out of them - lithium ion are specifically used to work with LEDs, and will last MUCH longer. The LEDS are also 12 volt so you'd have to use a 12 volt LI battery. They are not as uncommon as you might think and won't have to be changed for years and years. Due to the technology it is all something that the industry is working on to make safe.

and eh that's your business.

If I use specialty batteries - people won't KNOW until 5-10 years later when it actually doesn't work anymore.

....

it's usually a short circuit that does it. i've heard of phone batteries, popping off covers and screens on phones. left alone it could start a fire. i once had a 9volt in my pocket with a roll of lifesavers. it short the battery out, nearly set my leg on fire. i tossed it, it was swollen and almost too hot to touch.

thing is if you need to have special batteries to make the picture work, it won't be a good selling point. photo lith's work better, but they don't last all that long. you would be better off using rechargeable batteries and have it charge off of AC or USB. anything that needs a special battery will be forgotten about.

many assume it will last a long time. like saying LED's never go out - when they do. there's also corrosion and such over time. i always avoid special batteries, because i know long term i may not be able to find new ones and if it doesn't work, it's not worth it to me. flashlights, etc - when i get them they have to use common batteries. i can add a lith and make a brighter torch, but that actually does kill the LED, some can melt if too much voltage is passed through them. it's something to think about.

---Mike Savad

yeah you are right mike - the goal is to have the pv cells power whatever batteries we use, as well as have a plug in option to also recharge them.. so whatever we use needs to be able to hold a charge for a very long period of time, and to hold several charges.

I don't know if you can find a battery that is leak proof.. and I can't make it entirely PV dependent because let's be honest - in a house you aren't going to get that much power.. so the challenge is powering it enough for it to sustain itself and also to not leak or blow up. And you are correct - leds have a 50,000 to 80,000 hour lifespan - which is still 5-10 years, and the circuitry between each LED can still go. My leds are contained in gel so at least they are waterproof.. it should be interesting to wrestle with that's for sure! Need a battery that will last long enough without being a boat too..

Lithium ion batteries aren't fail safe. They've started fires in computers and phones; and a shipment of them nearly brought down an airliner. Also, they have been at the heart of the Boeing Dreamliner's problems because of their propensity to overheat and start fires.

LEDs have commonly been powered by traditional alkaline batteries (typically AAA types) in devices such as night lights and flashlights, among others. Their service life is relatively long in those applications, and they can be easily replaced when discharged.

but in nightlights and flashlights - that is generally ONE led bulb - and those things are only turned on for short durations of time - these are entire STRIPS of led bulbs.. I might get like an hour of life with them, which isn't very good for long lived powered on lightboxes at all haha.. I am sure there is some crazy new powering technology out there somewhere! The research for this should be fun

I should just go back to victorian style, make this a steampunk box and make you have to crank it, or stick a perpetual motion device behind it hahaha..

the only real way to do it, is to use a lens system of some kind. where you have less lights, and a lens that magnifies such light. or a parabolic front surface mirror (chrome plastic would work. it would be a bit flashlight. a diffuser in front to distribute the light out better. less lights, less power, less problems, and cheaper to make. unless you go for an indiglo system, i don't know if they come in white - i think they do, they make mods for computers that have that same material. though they do go bad after a while. it would be another solution and very clean.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1187138/banthracis-led-acrylic-lighting-testing-murdermod-luminous-panel-analysis this would be overkill

http://www.bit-tech.net/modding/guides/2012/02/17/illuminate-your-pc-part-3/1 took me a bit to remember the name - electroluminescent sheets. i don't know how bright they get, but if you use transparent based inks on a frosted plastic background, and use something like this, it might work better.


---Mike Savad

to be honest - you would sell more if you did a steampunk thing. you really would.


---Mike Savad

I'll be happy to sell you my own plans for a perpetual motion machine.

hmm interesting.. atm we use a white pvc backing that actually works to diffuse the top and bottom led strips for even light distribution.

and I know I would mike, I know I would lol.. just think of all the gears and shit I could put in the bg lol.. or on the sides..

also perpetual motion machines aren't that hard to make, quite a few models exist online and some are ancient.

A potential problem is that none of them actually work.

hmm.. I wonder.. how much power COULD you get from lets say.. a perpetual motion machine put on both sides and on the back.. it always amazed me the things they did in the past that practically powered themselves.. even if I make it wind-up.. make a mechanism complicated enough to last all day coupled with some additional PV to power.. hmmm....

well.. tell me more about the one YOU made work then hehe..

It never went beyond the design stage. It might work in theory . . .

How about this: My girlfriend has an LED flashlight with, I think, five diodes. It works by cranking and the light lasts for quite a while. I have a blood pressure monitor, which is powered by AA batteries. The batteries drive a vacuum pump as well as its internal computer and large LCD display. It has seen three months of frequent use without discharging the batteries so far. Now, if the pump motor were connected to the flashlight generator, which was then connected to your LED banks, it just could work. Maybe. It would also make a very pleasant hum when in operation. LOL

try it out! :)

Definetely will check this out! I have NO idea what a lightbox is. I might even be interested in buying one! Would you be able to explain what it is?

And honestly, why does everyone start these arguments here on FAA. Mikes being honest. Why are you arguing with him???

because that's what me and mike do - we argue lol.. we are both honest people.

Mike's bedside manner isn't always the best - he tends to start with pessimism and sometimes assumes things. I can tend to have pie in the sky ideas - so after some arguing we tend to simmer somewhere in the middle and all is good. I llove mike and hold no ill will against him, but sometimes I also wanna smack him lol..

a lightbox is an image that is put in a box and illuminated from behind so the entire image glows as if put up against a window and the sun shone through it. It looks especially vivid at night. What I am trying to do is make a lightbox that doesn't need to be plugged in, because I want to put them in places like balconies and patios, places like mine that have no outlets outside and can still cause some cool illumination.

i don't assume anything. i'm a visual thinker with advance planning skills. pie in the sky ideas don't always pan out and you need a lead balloon to ground ideas before they get started. while having a dream that something could work, it may not work. more so you can be sued if you overlap someone's patent.

people who think they have brilliant ideas often have to look at things in the opposite direction if they want to be realistic about something. being able to forecast down into the future is not a skill everyone has. so i share that.

it's not that the product won't look cool, it's how practical and likely will someone actually want that? it makes the art a novelty item. it's a product that needs batteries, and doesn't even tell the time, or serve as a light if the power goes out.

things that would make it more useful would be:

hinges - so it can be used as a flashlight - after all i think beyond having an image in front, if you can make a flash light that will work for 10 years at a stretch i think you'll have a bigger money maker than a light up frame.

a clock - to make it a useful item

a sensor switch that will turn the image off at night, or reverse that. so it's not wasting energy in the day - a mirror can be used instead. at night it would glow like a night light for kids rooms and such.


---Mike Savad

Are you talking about these back lite boxes that you see sold in mall kiosks?

I have been sing them for years. I have stopped and talked to these guys all the time. I like them, but I don't. The problem I see right now is they art that is in them is mostly cheap rock'n roll or Hip-Hop or movie posters. But that is just them catering to the market place I guess.

The is a guy in Primm NV outlet malls that tells me he is selling the hell out of them. The guy in the mall in Palm Springs, not so much.

I did see some in a mall in Phoenix that had all of the national parks images. Those I liked okay and I bet were selling very well. I did not get a chance to talk to the owner but there was three people working the booth and they all said they sell them all day long mostly to tourist.

I don't know about the one you are pushing, but there does seem to be people that want to buy them. To me there are just a bit to gimmickry.

However if I still had the one gallery that was huge in picture framing, I would put them in because I think they would sell. It doesn't matter if I like them or not. I would not have put them in the other to galleries that were a bit more upscale.

As for FAA selling them, yes I do think they will sell. People have to remember, FAA sells a lot of "non-fine art" to people that don't care what it is as long as they like the image


All the technical aspects about the battery and the reliable ability are all things that have to be worked out by the manufacture. But the concept is a valid one. Can you make it work technically and can you distribute them... that's another story.

yeah all things to consider - I would love to have the option for people to buy my work as lightboxes from faa.

I might look into hutchinson crystal power cells.. if I can make a big or long enough one I might be able to power them for long durations..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YD4Bz6ABUxg