Gallery Opportunity - Artist Application

I see a $60 jury fee with NO indication of acceptance, NO indication of % fee to sell (at least I did not see it) and other things that seem to raise a red flag. Think carefully, I would say!

Hi Mary,
There is a seller commission, what other red flags were bothering you?
--mary ellen anderson

Mary,
I've posted the sample contract that should address you concerns, but very long, sorry.
http://andersonrentals.com/artistcontract.php
--mary ellen anderson

I have added the following on how cost are split between the gallery and the artists, but I wanted to ask what your experience is on these cost. Even if unfamiliar than how do you think cost should be split between the gallery and the artist? Bear in mind, that in this case the gallery exclusively represents the artist.

The Gallery is responsible for the following percentage of costs.
 Shipping or transporting Artist’s art to and from Artist’s studio to Gallery (non-local). 50%.
 Shipping or transporting Artist’s art to and from Gallery to approved exhibitions: 50%
 Shipping or transporting by Artist’s from the Gallery: 0%
 Openings for solo shows: 50%
 Group shows: split between artists participating.
The Gallery will pay standard costs for organizing, hanging or otherwise displaying the art. Artist will pay special installation and exhibition cost required for their art.
--mary ellen anderson

Does this mean that the artist is bound to the gallery exclusively for all future works for 3 years?

"Instead of exclusivity being on the artist’s works, exclusivity is on artist’s potential work (3 year period with performance requirements)"

Yes, Adam. The Gallery is responsible for marketing all artist's work during contract which renews every 3 years with agreement by both, but no sources of artist income are restricted. So you're not financially dependent on Gallery's venue sales. As far as the gallery goes it's how you market unlimited products. However, either party can terminate the contract with 90 days notice to the other. Performance requirements are for producing new works by deadlines agreed-on, etc. Thought this was pretty normal terms with galleries, has it changed?
--mary ellen anderson

It occurs to me in reading between the lines that this might be your question?

Why 3-year Contracts?
Even with visibility it takes time and exposure in a market to start getting a following. In addition, it takes time for the Gallery and Artist to understand each other, and be able to work together. It takes time to develop merchandise based on Artist work and establish markets for them. Even exhibition commitments can be 18 months out. It takes time to build careers.

So realistically Artist should expect a 3 year agreement with the Gallery. It’s like a marriage contract, yes you can get out, but we can plan and assume that we’re going to build a life (for 3 years at least). You can invest in each other.
--mary ellen anderson

Forgive me, but I caught this piece quickly...The $60 juror fee covers basic consideration of my work for representation and is non-refundable upon reject or acceptance? Also, in all honesty, I havn't yet had the time to read the detailed agreement conract, but wondered quickly if there are addtional "membership" or "exhibition" fees to be paid by artists, though I am aware of shipping costs? Finally, are thier size restrictions or a particular "style" of art that are considered most preferred--is "cutting edge," introspective commentary, or "unconventional" subject matter or materials "off limits." Thanks, Mary Ellen.

Thanks Mary Ellen.

It's all new to me. The only experience with a gallery so far was the gallery owner saying

"Adam I love your work, would you like to put some prints and cards for sale here"

Me "Sure, how does it work?"

Gallery "You send me the prints and cards and the price you want for them. I add 25% to your price. I mat and frame them. When the customer buys them you'll get your print price and I'll get the 25% markup and whatever the customer spends on the frame."

Me: "OK, sounds great. Let me know what you think would sell best and I'll send the prints over."

Sounds like a much more basic kind of arrangement.

The only other one I'm familiar with is this place but its just for a monthly show:
http://www.darkroomgallery.com/submission/selection

Aloha Mary Ellen,

At first I was going to message you instead of posting this to your discussion. I've gone to the web link you provided about 5 times now. The website for "Anderson Rentals" has me very confused. I don't see a "Master Artists Galleries". I see an industrial building with a lot of heavy equipment and out houses. Nothing about the website says "gallery". The website it's self is industrial looking and not appealing. So I'm very confused. Is the gallery you speak of somewhere else? You have only one image of a wall with art hanging on it. The image is out of focus and the furniture reminds me of a waiting room in a car mechanic shop, cold and uninviting. Will you be creating a gallery website that is more appealing for art buyers verses construction equipment? What concerns me as an artist is what kind of customers are you trying to attract? As a professional artist who's work has been in many galleries, I'm just not seeing it. Why I should apply to an "Exclusive Representation" contract with your gallery? At the moment I'm represented by three galleries on Maui. All three galleries look like galleries. All three sell my work well. All three pay me monthly. Non of them have exclusive contracts. In fact, I have never signed an exclusive contract with any gallery and I've been in quite a few. One in Lake Tahoe California, three in Chico California and the three here in Maui.

Now to be fair, the one in Lake Tahoe belonged to my parents. My mom never had her artist sign contracts. She had a great relationship with all the artists she represented because she paid them within a week of selling their work. Artists loved her because she was honest and fair. Most of them where in other galleries. Some of those galleries had exclusive contracts. All of those galleries were notorious for not paying the artists on a timely bases. Some would take 1 to 2 years to pay. So you can see why I would need some big convincing to sign a contract.

Also, I have never heard of a "jury fee" to get into a gallery. Contests yes, galleries no. A lot of your "call to artist" reads very professionally. It looks like you've done your homework. A new young artist with stars in their eyes would probably jump at what you have to offer. I wish you luck.

@ Kenneth
There are no other fees or costs with the Gallery. At least to the Gallery. There are cost that Artist will have like a premium account on FAA, material costs, fair fees, etc. But cost are reimbursed before all commissions. So the gallery increasing cost to the artist just lowers our profitability. What is better is utilizing the scale and efficiency of the gallery to reduce these costs for the artists and collect them out of sales.

There will be 4 jurors, myself and 3 curators that are not associated with the gallery. One curator will be from a International Art Museum, One local curator in art related museum like history or architecture or with the University of Kansas, and one will be an art dealer. In general, a career gallery (which I apparently am innovating) is not as concerned with what themes, disciplines, and sizes your art is as how marketable you are as an artist. The gallery doesn't have a set proprietary market to serve, it's job is to find the markets for their artists. The Gallery's identity is in it's artists not it's markets, and is infrastructure for the artist to separate their work from it's commercialism. But the Artist's sites are there own and about their artistic statement only. That said, then we are in the business of fine art and there are rules of conduct and ethics adhered to. Darice, is right in that these need to be done on separate and more elegant sites, but I'm still writing page content; so at this point would just duplicate the mess.

It might be helpful if I address Adams question on the relationship.

@ Adam, in this case the gallery would say ok what do you have already created for me to sell, and where are you already selling? Then you'd have a marketing plan to approve with gallery recommendations that would incorporate that. It would say, "We should place some cards and prints of these images in Adams friends shop". We'd do the math for you. The cost to produce this inventory through the gallery is $. Artist can provide their own inventory to the galley to market, but you will only be allowed to be reimbursed for your costs a max of 25% of price. Commissions earned will be $. The gallery will use it's resources and efficiency of scale to save artist cost (not buyers price). The gallery will make money both by selling for the artists, but also in saving them cost. The only way to control costs is to make them hurt everyone; what artist have now is runaway cost because it's only their problem. A problem most artist are unskilled and disadvantaged at solving and business people are very good at. What an artist creates is different thinking then who and how do you sell it.The Gallery is there to help you with that thinking, and leave the artist free to address their artistic validity.


@Darice

The issue is that artist's today have more products to sell than just original work and a lifetime of time; they have prints, reproductions, merchandising, licensing, etc. It's unlimited what an artist has to sell, but no way to access those markets because there is no seller or promoter incentives in unlimited products. Even if an artist could access all the markets available to them, on unlimited products it's mean they are not artist's anymore but marketers. Originals work on a piece basis because there is only one; no matter how many galleries you have paintings in, it's still a physically exclusive arrangement. All you have to find markets for are the paintings in your inventory.

But what about print products and internet markets; how do you create incentive for venues to sell there? Now it's not about whether gallery A or B sells it because you can make as many as you can find demand for, so both sell it. But how long did it take you to find piece-galleries for your originals? You got that times infinity? This business model addresses this by making the artist's demand (people wanting and selling that artist's work) the basis of the Gallery commission not the single sale on a physical inventory. How else could you accomplish this?

I'm not complete sure how to address your issue with a juror fee. It's fair; I'm sure it won't cover my costs, but it is intended to keep people from wasting my time.
--mary ellen anderson

who wrote that contract?

I am pretty sure it is not written by an attorney.

I went to the site, read through it all, and besides, taking money for jurors, you can also buy Wood & Paint and don't forget the special they have, No not in artists work, but in
Earth Moving Equipment, Forklifts, Hoists, Lawn & Yard, Lifts and Recreational Gear. (I took this directly from their site.

Am I missing something, like how does a shop in Kansas, market artists work? do they have relationships with other galleries for instance?

I don't want to sound negative, just more informed.

Thanks,

Michael

This gallery has been born in these forum over the past year and a half and I forget how odd this is. But if there is a way to browse the forums it might be insightful.

That said, Michael, in a lot of ways it is as odd as it sounds. Certainly there is no one in their right mind that would have expected an association with a rental yard to work, but it did.

I came back to art a year and a half ago. It was a surprise to me that there was the demand there was for my art, but it's not a surprise to me that I can build a business. So I've done what entrepreneurs do; figure out with what I have available and what I can do with it to make money; But the biggest asset I had was my visibility in the community through my other businesses, associations, and history. So there is an enormous feeling of 'being caught with your shades up' on doing this venture, like trying to paint in front of the public. You know where your going to go with the piece but to the public it's an unrecognizable blob - lol. The only pics I had to post are a year and a half years old of a year and a half project, simply because I haven't replaced them... not because I haven't address the concerns they show. I'll try and get some time for web design - sigh. But it is what it is at least at this point. It is working and has obvious momentum. I hope the business model is clear and even looked at as masterful business, even at this stage. I'm not new to art, Lawrence, business, etc, but it is a new project.
--mary ellen anderson

You are correct, Rudy, I wrote the contract. Is there specific issues?
--mary ellen anderson

Someone asked why you would go with MEA Fine Art? There are 2 main ones. It’s certainly not your definition of success, hasn't done anything that looks like a gallery. But frankly that is the point. If success was simply doing it a certain way everyone would be doing it that way. The point isn't if I’m doing it the way everyone thinks it should be done, the point is how am I being successful despite that. How have I gotten art in this association accepted as reputable, by actual people and institutions? So instead of how can a small Kansas town girl sell art, wonder what such a girl is going to do with more resources (like your masterpieces or a better couch or website). You go with emerging artist because they are going to go some where, same reason in business.

Secondly, just how happy is that dream of success for the artist, you're searching for? Is it working out for you to be treated as a commodity (piece) producer? I've been accused of being a gallery rebel, and if that means do I think there's a much better way of running an art gallery than guilty. A system that can't tap your potential, isn't serving art's potential. (Welcome to the beginning of MEA institute of Fine Art ;) But this is also about starting a philosophy of ethical representation of artists. Right here from Lawrence KS... that also started the Civil War - lol.

Edit:
Sorry, third reason. How big of a risk is this to even the successful artist? Run your numbers with our price ranges, for most artist I'm finding this alone is increasing their income. Artist's aren't being asked to give up any revenue sources they have now. The Gallery isn't asking for payment to promote an artist, or even offering blue-star walls. They are asking for commissions for tapping new sources of revenue for the artist. Even for the most establish artist what is their best career move? Tapping their unlimited unused potential (even just a little) or getting into a more prestigious piece gallery?
--mary ellen anderson

Ellen - It is not that there are any specific issues or that the agreement would be insufficient, I just noticed it because of the ambiguous language here and there and the style. For instance this line: "Artist will immediately comply with marketing needs and curator decisions." What does that mean? What is immediately? What does it include? What does it not include? It is a demand that you might want to spell out. Also with all those lists you restrict yourself, which is in general not a good idea. It is better to say "Such as A), B), C), and other venues as deemed appropriate by the Gallery" or something along those lines. The first thing I actually noticed was your referral to the UCC, which is in general also not a good idea (It's a can of worms). There is no need to write it this way either because anything that is not covered or is in conflict is automatically handled by the Municipal, Sate, and Federal codes (in that order) and does not necessarily includes the UCC if there are other codes that supersedes the UCC.

So, it is not that anything is wrong, it's just different and it is obvious that you spend a lot of time creating it and that you want the best for everybody involved.

If artists already signed the contract, forget everything I said. You can't change anything unilaterally and they would have to sign an amendment or a whole new contract.

Darice,
I understand your concerns about people that break their contracts. And that ethical people don't need contracts to be ethical and professional. But the real issue is that a contract doesn't hurt either party be less ethical. At least if it written with the intent to be an understood agreement and not a trap to cheat someone. So this is why I've published it. Your opportunity to convince yourself of 'what I'm up too'. Ethical people that don't need contract to be ethical, also have no issues at all being asked to explain a contract they'd ask you to sign.
--mary ellen anderson

Rudy, I will be ultimately taking this by a lawyer, but I've found from experience that I end up doing a better job with interested help from people like you than if I don't pretty well iron out the important things (like intent) before I give it to them to make unreadable - lol.

But again I did know I needed to do more but wanted to get the concepts out there. Give me a few days and I'll ask you to look through it again.
Thanks,
--mary ellen anderson

Intent is very subjective and nobody can read your mind (as far as I know lol), so one of the main purposes of a contract is to avoid any potential confusion about intent. I would me happy to look at your new version. Just PM me.

Any possible outlet for promotion interests me, and I am receptive to your possibilities, Mary Ellen. Another pair of eyes viewing my work, another source of energy to possibly elevate my storage "contents" to greater marketing heighs, is a point of otimism I am ready to consider. But, as I have stressed, my work is large--imprarctical for shipment unless rolled like a carpet--and can be cutting edge...not sure if it is appropriate for our mission.

Kenneth, I really am unable to advise you. I myself am intentionally leaving my mind open to considerations only at this time. And as I've said, I've hire 3 other distinctly different points of views in our jurors, and the reason you do that is you want opinions other than your own. And I have no way of knowing what the response will be. But I truly do appreciate you getting you head around this, and looking. Best of Luck.

--mary ellen anderson

This looks like BS to me.

Thanks, Mary. But, Joseph, why do you so flat-out conclude it's BS? Can you expand on that thinking? All feedback is helpful.

Joseph,
All I can do is offer to explain any of your concerns. This is a lot of things but not BS; what can I do to address this?
--mary ellen anderson

Mary Ellen,

(part 2 of 2)

I read your most recent posting, wherein you said that your enterprise is about artists’ careers and not selling art. Well, actually that’s kind of scary. You referred to artists as afraid, ignorant, stupid, disdainful of business, paranoid, et cetera. My 30 years of actual experience in the art world has shown me the exact opposite, despite that very clichéd perception that you repeated about artists, who are for the record a whole lot more savvy than you give them credit for. It is this very kind of disconnect from the reality of the art world that has me wondering just what it is that you are offering and how you intend to deliver.

I think it should be pointed out that yes, artists have legitimate concerned about building their careers, selling their work and gaining the correct exposure and recognition. In a general sense there is a reason for their concerns, and it has nothing to do with paranoia, ignorance, or disdain of business. It is because the majority of working artists today have not ever experienced a healthy art market. The last boom market was in the late 1980s and very early 1990s. In those days, most every professional artist had a healthy career. The market crashed about 20 years ago, coincidental with the advent of the Internet. Perhaps if your career had been in the art world you would better understand the struggle that artists have been going through ever since. This is a serious issue but it is most certainly not about any of those paranoia-misperception-ignorance adjectives that you were tossing around in that last post.

What you seem to have missed entirely is that gallery owners are nothing special. They don’t walk on water. They aren’t an artist’s savior. They are merely retail shopkeepers. They couldn’t be in business for a single day if they couldn’t get the product they purvey from the artists. (That is unless, like yourself, they also paint. But that said, a one-artist gallery is referred to as a studio, not a gallery.) You, as a reseller, can’t exist without artists but they can definitely exist without you. So, for the record, what exactly is it that you plan to do to change their lives?

Along the same shopkeepers vein, artist representatives or career managers can usually better manage a fireman or a clown if they don’t have real-world art market experience and a lot of it. Management only becomes a specialty when the manager has a decade or two of success and experience behind him.
In my career I have met exactly two representatives with the kind of track record where I might have recommended to my client that they consider some level of exclusivity, but only then if limited to verifiable regional spheres of influence. Three years? Please.

Now I know you probably think because you have had success in other business sectors you can just wade right in like Moses and part the waters. It’s a nice thought but you do need to know something about art. If you can’t speak coherently about what constitutes abstract art, or can’t articulate the difference between the styles of Diebenkorn and Rothko then someone with an education will catch you out. In my experience, it is usually the gallery people who are stumbling along, faking it, that suddenly realize they have been bloviating to an art critic from the Big City for the past 15 minutes and are about to star in this weekend’s ruthless gallery critique.

Because I really can’t get any remote sense about what exactly your new idea is, I can only go by what I’ve read. It appears that artists are expected to share expenses with you for shows and other events.

Also, apparently in the process of making sales you are allowed to discount off of the asking price 30% (or is it 35%?) without calling and asking the artist’s permission.

And further, the artist is expected to carry loss-and-damage insurance on all consigned work. I could go on, but let’s just discuss these 3 items.

First of all, no reputable gallery will ever ask the artist to be a co-payer on a show or other event, or for promotional materials, or for advertising. Artists don’t buy the wine and cheese, don’t pay for postage. The artist creates the work, expends his efforts and expenses for materials and framing, shipping, etc., and then consigns the work to the gallery. Let’s do the math. If the working split is 50-50, then in truth the actual split is 40-60 because of the artist’s front-end expenses. So, for every $1000 of retail price the artist can expect to net $400 after expenses.

Second, your concept of only being responsible for theft or vandalism on the art is almost hard to believe. It is your shop, you are the shopkeeper, and you are responsible for all the inventory you retain on consignment. The artist is loaning it to you so you have something to sell, not storing it there with you for an additional fee.

Third, let’s take the discussion a step further into your discounting schedule. According to the contract, MEA Fine Art can put something on the wall for $1000 and discount it down 30% to $700 to make the sale, all without calling the artist for permission. Said artist then gets a check from you for $350.00 and subtracts the $100 of front-end expenses - thereby netting a whopping $250 of posted retail. Meaning, I trust you understand, that your actions reduced the perceived retail value of the artist’s work by 50% to $500.

Anyone who has been in the gallery operations business before will tell you this kind of permission-free unilateral discounting is never legitimate. They will also tell you that deep discounting wreaks havoc on the established retail value of an artist’s work. Galleries of this ilk often artificially inflate retail prices so as to make more room for huge discounts. This also does a huge disservice to the artist, because he is trying to build a defensible retail value for his work, and the exact opposite is transpiring.

And further, the conventional wisdom in the art business is that if you can’t turn a deal with a discount of 5% in artist participation, and 10% more on your end then you either need to absorb the remainder of the discount yourself, or take some time to concentrate on learning how to sell art, and how to stay in complete control of the deal. A 30% discount isn’t selling – it’s just plain desperation.

When they are searching for representation, here are some of the things I normally caution my clients about:

a) Never do business with any gallery unless it has a successful track record of sales and promotion of at least 3 years duration.
b) Always ask for references. Also, ask to speak to artists that the gallery currently represents.

c) Never give a gallery or artist rep exclusivity except for a written stipulation of regional coverage. This can be a single town, county, or statewide area, depending on contractual quarterly sales performance requirements that you set up with the gallery or artist rep. Two successive calendar quarters of below-par sales and you should be off to a new rep. They are working for you, not the other way around.

d) In any contractual negotiation, always get your questions answered, ask for what you want, and when a deal has been struck, make sure every element is in writing and notarized.

e) If you consign work to a gallery, file a Perfected Consignment form with the county registrar where the gallery is located. This registers the fact that specified works of art are consigned to the gallery and protects them from seizure by the gallery’s creditors.

f) Never agree to co-pays on any exhibition or event. Make sure the contract stipulates the gallery’s responsibility for advertising, hand-outs and other promotional materials is theirs alone and that you will not participate in the expenses.

g) Never allow the gallery to negotiate sales prices unilaterally. If the artist percentage of the discount is more than 5%, require that they call for permission.

h) Never allow a sale of a single work of your art with more than a 15% discount, or 20% on multiple pieces.

i) If the artist rep or gallery is participating in a career development plan for you, before entering into the agreement, require that you are provided with a detailed, step-by-step plan that clearly explains what will be done and expected timelines for accomplishing tasks.
j) If you are paying a commission on sales to the artist rep, make sure that the contract stipulates that this is applicable only to new business, not existing business relationships developed before the rep came on board. You retain control of everything prior to the beginning of the relationship.

k) Do your homework and choose carefully. New art galleries have an average failure rate of 24% the first year and 14% the second year, and even higher in in areas where there isn’t an established, healthy art market.

l) Never license your work unless you have consulted an attorney and understand the way that rights-managed licensing works and all the potential channels for it.

m) Never allow your work to be used for rental purposes unless the company offering it for rent agrees to purchase the art at an agreed upon wholesale price and pays you in full prior to offering it for rental.

Dominic Piperata
Paradigm Arts Group
www.arts-group.com
artsgroup@aol.com

What you seem to have missed entirely is that gallery owners are nothing special. They don’t walk on water. They aren't an artist’s savior. They are merely retail shopkeepers. [Agree with this on the traditional gallery. They've badly let down artist that they should have been valuing instead of treating them like commodity producers.] They couldn’t be in business for a single day if they couldn’t get the product they purvey from the artists. [Unless it’s about controlling the art market with a proprietary client list. There isn’t an art market in the world that not glutted and getting more glutted by definition.]

So, for the record, what exactly is it that you plan to do to change their lives? [Find new markets for fine art and opportunities for my artist to access them.]

Three years? Please. [With a 90 day out]

Now I know you probably think because you have had success in other business sectors you can just wade right in like Moses and part the waters. It’s a nice thought but you do need to know something about art. If you can’t speak coherently about what constitutes abstract art, or can’t articulate the difference between the styles of Diebenkorn and Rothko then someone with an education will catch you out. In my experience, it is usually the gallery people who are stumbling along, faking it, that suddenly realize they have been bloviating to an art critic from the Big City for the past 15 minutes and are about to star in this weekend’s ruthless gallery critique. [You criticize me for not being your expectation and assume it’s who I’m saying I am. How am I being more arrogant than you in your claims to authority?]

It appears that artists are expected to share expenses with you for shows and other events. [“Gallery will be responsible for administration and promotion of all Gallery owned venues and websites and implementation of the Marketing Plan approved herein.”]

First of all, no reputable gallery will ever ask the artist to be a co-payer on a show or other event, or for promotional materials, or for advertising. Artists don’t buy the wine and cheese, don’t pay for postage. The artist creates the work, expends his efforts and expenses for materials and framing, shipping, etc., and then consigns the work to the gallery. [Regardless of the falsehood of this claim, costs that aren't shared are uncontrolled. If one party or another is responsible solely for a cost it’s abused. There’s no motive to be frugal. There are costs to commercializing your work, but we can work together to reduce waste, get discounts, etc. We first work to reduce cost and then reimburse costs prior to all commissions.] Let’s do the math. If the working split is 50-50, then in truth the actual split is 40-60 because of the artist’s front-end expenses. So, for every $1000 of retail price the artist can expect to net $400 after expenses. [No, if artist’s had expenses of $200 (and no gallery direct costs) and piece sold for $1000. Artist would receive $200 + 47% of $800 = $576]

Second, your concept of only being responsible for theft or vandalism on the art is almost hard to believe. It is your shop, you are the shopkeeper, and you are responsible for all the inventory you retain on consignment. The artist is loaning it to you so you have something to sell, not storing it there with you for an additional fee. [Whether the gallery or the artist pays insurance expense the cost has to ultimately be covered by the price of the work. Personally, I think liability on living artists work is a bad value for the money regardless of who pays it. This agreement is going to be the artist directing us in moving works around, exhibiting them on the artist behalf etc. The gallery carries liability insurance on the gallery, but if artist’s feel it’s a good buy for them than go for it. I think you are far better off to offset the occasional actual loss then pay insurance premiums, but it’s the artist’s choice.]

Third, let’s take the discussion a step further into your discounting schedule. According to the contract, MEA Fine Art can put something on the wall for $1000 and discount it down 30% to $700 to make the sale, all without calling the artist for permission. Said artist then gets a check from you for $350.00 and subtracts the $100 of front-end expenses - thereby netting a whopping $250 of posted retail. Meaning, I trust you understand, that your actions reduced the perceived retail value of the artist’s work by 50% to $500. [Wrong again, taking the same $1000 painting with $200 in artist’s direct cost the maximum discount is 35% of $800 = 280. So price is $720. Artist gets $200 + 47% of $520=$444.40. BTW: That is now abt. 62% to the artists on a sale, as opposed to 58% above... How motivated do you thing the gallery and the seller are going to be to offer big discounts?]

When they are searching for representation, here are some of the things I normally caution my clients about: [Compare apples to apples, and comparing representation of artist’s work to access to career resources and development isn't that. I’m trying to empower artist to be able to take control their careers and potential. I normally caution both new entrepreneurs and artists to not just think in the box. The question here is what do you want from the gallery? Work, opportunity, legacy or representation in a particular glutted proprietary market.]

f) Never agree to co-pays on any exhibition or event. Make sure the contract stipulates the gallery’s responsibility for advertising, hand-outs and other promotional materials is theirs alone and that you will not participate in the expenses. [Instead agree to reduce all costs before you scramble to place direct cost on anything but the price of the work. This is accomplished systemically in that direct costs are reimbursed to the appropriate investor before any commissions. Gallery has stated that it pays its own operating costs. The artist pay the marketing cost the artist pursues outside the gallery markets; though there is a reimbursement for award winning artist.]

g) Never allow the gallery to negotiate sales prices unilaterally. If the artist percentage of the discount is more than 5%, require that they call for permission. [This is a lot like the discussions when Sean announced designerprints. Lots of mistaken assumptions. First of all contract % can be negotiated but this is about setting that individual artist’s point where you want to be bothered. It’s by intent that everyone gets hurt for unprofitable behavior; uncontrolled cost, discounts, etc in order to make both the gallery and the artist able to concentrate just on their roles. ]

i) If the artist rep or gallery is participating in a career development plan for you, before entering into the agreement, require that you are provided with a detailed, step-by-step plan that clearly explains what will be done and expected timelines for accomplishing tasks.
j) If you are paying a commission on sales to the artist rep, make sure that the contract stipulates that this is applicable only to new business, not existing business relationships developed before the rep came on board. You retain control of everything prior to the beginning of the relationship. [It is negotiable, but make sure you understand the ramifications of your choices. This is about the gallery applying and adding momentum and support behind you as an artists. The gallery is not going to pick artists that aren’t wanting to utilize that power or vice versa.]

k) Do your homework and choose carefully. New art galleries have an average failure rate of 24% the first year and 14% the second year, and even higher in in areas where there isn’t an established, healthy art market. [Gallery is 1.5 years old].

m) Never allow your work to be used for rental purposes unless the company offering it for rent agrees to purchase the art at an agreed upon wholesale price and pays you in full prior to offering it for rental. [Artist do have this full protection under a security deposit that is held by the renting company. But artist’s also earn commissions on the value added to the price in rental fees. The choice is risk; would you rather have a no-risk % or a secured-risk for the gross. $1000 painting, required deposit varies but assume 30% = $300. You receive an addition $276 in purchase price and cost reimbursement over the rental period. OR you receive same $576 + 33% of the rental fee profits = abt. $115 = $691 (a 20% roi). In the case of a loss, you'd received the $300 deposit + the commission on the rental payments, instead of just the $300. And artist can opt-out of renting their art, but if they do the gallery gives them incentives for doing so while protecting their risk. Again, look close and don't dismiss out of hand.]

-- mary ellen anderson

Mary Ellen,

Despite your interesting math calculations that will likely confuse most artists, the fact remains that everything I mentioned is part of your contract. If you have a gallery that has been in business for 18 months, surely you can provide the name and business address, along with some basic information about square footage, how many artists you currently represent, the size of your gallery staff, and provide photos of the exterior and interior on your website. When I access your website the only art I see there is yours. Who else are you showing in your gallery?

Nobody reading this discussion has any idea who you are, what your background is (related to the art world), or what you consider your legitimate qualifications are to represent artists and manage their careers. You seem determined not to provide any information, just nebulous intimations that you have some developed a strategy that will open up whole new channels for sales and distribution. Something that apparently the best minds in the art world has been struggling with for two decades. Yet you magically appear and can solve it all. I am finding that very hard to believe. Perhaps you’ll be willing to throw us a bone and just describe a single one of these brand new channels.

I find your continued assertions about artists borderline insulting and your pronouncements about the art markets in general woefully simplistic and out of touch. You call artists paranoid, fearful, ignorant, and disdainful of business, yet your perspective of the art world seems reminiscent of someone who has only had access to dog-eared past issues of Art Business News.

Don’t you think it’s time to stop ducking the central issues and tell artists who you are by providing a resume that tells what your real-world experience in the arts really is? My sense is that without you coming clean about your experience in the arts and providing some substantive information about this major plan of yours, the only artists you are likely to attract will not be professionals looking to further develop an already existing career, rather, they will only be the most desperate and ill-informed here at FAA.

If you disagree, prove me wrong by posting your CV and a summary of your business plan, along with the requisite info about your gallery name and address, your staff, and the artists you represent, along with corroborative photos.

Dominic

Hi Mary Ellen ,

I think it's admirable that you are trying to do this and I do hope you succeed. However, Dominic raises some very important facts and observations.

I have looked into opening a gallery and learned a few discouraging things along the way. The overhead is to high to support the type of business due to subjectivity of art and the randomness of purchases, I don't see the business model working unless your in a tourist location or large city with a huge population. There is also the avg household income that factors into this. And doing online and having a storefront spreads oneself to thin. I have seen three four established galleries close their doors. And , seen others take their place, but struggle to pay bills.

I have found that each gallery has its own personality based upon the artwork. My images would not be appropriate in a lot of galleries. What type of artwork does your gallery display? Is it modern, abstract, paintings or photographs?

If I were to display my images, I would want them shown in a destination/tourist location. And, then the content of those images should reflect the area.
Or I would want to display in LA, Chicago , San Francisco , Miami, or NY. In those cities you can get away with displaying and subject.

Most of the gallerists I have met have years of education and experience. They know art and are also great salespeople. What type of business background do you have? Have you run a business before?

I think the art business model is flawed today and don't see any real solutions

Can you explain your math again.

If a piece of art sells for $1000 and it costs me $200 in expenses that leave $800 in profit before commissions, but I get 50% of $1000,,which is 500 less the originally expense of 200 equals $300 profit..

OH and something else,,,

Why am I paying for the advertising? ANd I have no control over who that goes too? and who will you advertise too? Are you doing this locally in paper or national in magazines..And what type of advertisement is it,,will it be aa full page, 1/2 page or 1/4 page? or are you sending out bulk emails to decorators and designers, which ge t a ton to begin with! Am I paying for the expense for a show in Kansas? Why not Miami, Los angeles?

Running a gallery is really hard and there are alot of nuances to it.. Its really a niche area and based upon the economy today,,everybody wants a bargain and they wont accept the retail price..Hell I dont,,And its a different world since the great recession. People are not so quick to part with their money as they did years ago.. They would rather same some bucks and buy it online.


I just showed your Math Calculations to a "math wiz" and she thought it was too complicated..

Dominic I did a Google maps search with the address listed on the contact: 1312 W. 6th St, Lawrence, KS 66044 US. it turned out to a rental yard.

"I’m not promoting if my particular current resources are the best for your career, I’m promoting me, a process and path."

If I have misinterpreted the above statement, I apologize. But along with the quoted "promotion intent" and many of the vagaries in the "business plan" as such, I think the opportunity really does need a lot more scrutiny. Just too many "loose ends" it seems. This is not to say it cannot work somewhere, sometime but it may need much more thought and organization.

I read the thread, tried to follow the math (why is theoretical quantum physics less of a challenge than some of the arithmetic here?). The I had a look at the website and "contract" link. Bizarre. Just bizarre.

Domanic,
I've already responded to these innuendo and peoples refusal to consider. See post to Walter 7 days ago. I can only go so far in addressing your concerns you've got to be willing to have your concerns addressed. I spent considerable time correcting your misrepresentations and erroneous assumptions and you dismiss it as creative math that most won’t understand (who is being disdainful of artists in this?) And how does that make it wrong math? The ‘everything’ in your post you claim is in my contract is there because you took your list from the contract first, but more importantly because these items belong in a contract. I've hidden nothing, but you got few assumptions right, certainly not that there is guilt in being caught with contract items in your contract. Wasn't it you that had breaking news that I rented both art and loaders? Bring it on, I wear a lot of hats.

If you look on the front page under ‘meet the artists’ you can see that I've always intended to list my CV and I can’t imagine this isn't available on the web anyway; even woven it in these forums for coincidentally 1.5 years. I don’t know what your issue is that you can’t find my business address and phone see the other artists I represent (at least on all but the new site).

@ everyone else
For the record than I was an old-style apprentice artist to the Kansas University fine art dept faculty for 9 years, than exhibited another 15 years. I've been a business owner for 35 years. Own 4 businesses currently: a rental yard, commercial re, public accounting, and now an art gallery. I have 5 areas of college studies: art, science, engineering, business, and philosophy. The re for the rental yard is a 24,000 sq ft facility on ‘the square’ of Lawrence. Last time I checked in the 80’s than 40,000 cars drove by daily; maybe twice that today; 80% of Lawrence daily. Lawrence is unique but not only do I know my market and business but this is already working. It doesn't matter if you would have ever believed a physicist, Kansan, woman, accountant, whatever (your issues are) should be qualified or could come up with a ground breaking idea, did. This is like holding tryouts after the final game.

I've tried to explain that it’s not based on trusting me anyway. How it’s systemically counterproductive for the gallery, artist, or seller to screw each other.

Is it really difficult for people to figure out who knows what they are talking about and who is blowing smoke or trolling? Dominic says that the gallery system is well and thriving. That galleries are grateful to the artists they represent because they are dependent on them. That the gallery promotes the artists and represents them in other markets. And of course selling originals in a NY gallery is the only legitimate revenue source. How realistic is this career to your reality?

I can try and help you with the logic, business, even math but accepting if I'm what you expected or believable - lol. Maybe these links will help. I've mention before that this gallery had been born on the FAA forum and these threads might give more insight not only into this business model but who I am.
http://fineartamerica.com/showmessages.php?messageid=1424561
http://fineartamerica.com/showmessages.php?messageid=1418770
http://fineartamerica.com/showmessages.php?messageid=1293353

Business 101:

3 kinds of costs: direct, selling, and operating
3 levels of profits: gross (equal to price sold), gross margin (gross – direct), and net (gross – all costs)

Traditionally gallery paid artist’s gross commissions (and it has to be that way if the artist is responsible for their own direct costs). Painting sells for $1000 w/ $200 artist’s cost @ 50% gross commission = $500 – 200 = $300 w/ trad. Gal

MEA figures commissions on gross margin. Artist turns in their direct cost and prices are established with that in account. So when same painting sells than the $200 is taken off the top before commissions are calculated. The remaining $800 is paid as commissions in our case of 47% to the artist (on originals)=$376. Therefore in our gallery the artist would get a total of $576 ($376 + $200 reimbursed costs). Assuming the artist’s wasn't the seller too, or in rent-to-own… in which case they’d get more. 6% of $800 goes to the individual seller = $48 and think if rental was abt $115. (576 + 48 + 115 = $739 over time).

Artist profit:
MEA = $ 576 192%
Trad = $ 300 100%
Diff = $ 276 92%

The reason for the change is to control cost and risk for the artist, and place maintaining product profitability on the gallery to oversee. Why because it’s a business role (I don’t think you guys are too dumb to maintain your profitability, I assume you don’t want to – lol) but even more so because the gallery can do major things to reduce these costs if it’s motivated to do so.


Who pays the 3 kinds of costs? Direct costs are the responsibility of the artist (thought see above). Operating cost are paid by the gallery. Gallery's seller costs (advertising, staff, hanging, etc) are paid by gallery. Artist’s seller cost are paid by artists except in gallery venues we’re they’re mostly shared. Again the reason behind sharing expenses is to give everyone a motive to reduce them. Likewise the reason commissions are paid on gross margin is also to build a gallery motive for cost control. Costs that are totally controlled by one party or the other for themselves are generally responsible for those costs. So if an artist’s signs up to attend a local fair on their own the entry fee is the artist’s. However, artist’s can and do take each other’s works to fairs because they will split the fee and the seller gets a commission on it. In addition, the gallery offers awards and reimbursement to winning artist in approved exhibits.

Goal is make it systemically beneficial to help and support each other; not a war to pin cost on the other party but to keep necessary and critical efficiency and economy.

There are no artist’s gallery fees, promotion fees, or anything else? The gallery can only make money by either saving money or making money for the artist.

Come-on, this isn't difficult math and it really is worth your while to think it through. Only pretty basic logic required (which is better: A or B), I didn't put in any quantum physics at all – lol; And what it proves that I could, escapes me. Feel free to post your own problem to see if you’re calculating right. I appreciate you taking the effort to try and figure this out.


--mary ellen anderson

interesting read - after reading this entire thread, I will run (not walk) away from this offer. Local galleries are a far better option for me, and probably most of you. There have been great discussions and input and I commend Mary Ellen for staying calm and unthreatened by replies. In the end, I agree most with what Dominic posted way above.

Dominic -
without commenting on all the rest of this discussion - I am glad I scanned it and found your list - which I have saved -
"When they are searching for representation, here are some of the things I normally caution my clients about:"

it is the only thing that has made the time I've spent here worth it.... thank you!

I think that were some of you are getting stuck is in not thinking about the essential difference here. This is about your career not pieces of your work. You’re looking at the gallery/artist agreement with the question of what pieces of art are you selling for me. As a war contract, not a working arrangement.

This is about providing you with new ways to get work and sales. We do the above (sell pieces of work) but mostly we work for new ways you can get work and sales. We are going with the math that any % of infinity is more than any finite number. No matter how grand the gallery’s market for original work, there are unlimited other markets for the work.

Several of you seem to be going with the ‘where will my original pieces make the most commission’ as though the MEA was a contestant in this choice. MEA is a resource to help you make that choice and give you options. The actual sales outlet can be done through MEA's or the artist’s venues and affiliates, or others. The important benefit with MEA is the other markets and resources we have that you might use to start tapping your infinity.

The gallery market is IMO an increasingly insignificant revenue source for most artist. No one, not even artists, can afford to ignore their potential. Artist are unique in that in order to access their full potential they must separate their artistic and commercial identities, but that a solvable problem not an excuse. You've got to be stepping up if you want something, look for ways to find work, network, grow and contribute, in any career.

There is a vast difference between middle-management and the big-idea makers. There is no doubt that ‘following-the-book’ makes sense but it is a box and you should be aware of that. A very finite amount of art that will sell against virtually unlimited supply - it’s unlikely that your work will be in that gallery-sold#. This is the world of the piece-gallery.

My personal assessment is it may appear safe, fair, and logical, and obtainable but it’s not. The relationship between the artist’s growth and contribution (what an artist’s can control in their career) is no longer tied to gallery support.

There is no one thinking outside-the-box for the artist today by the traditional gallery in obtaining new markets and followers for the artist. Entrepreneurs are big-idea makers. They take an artist’s need like the issues facing artists in capitalizing on their talents and come up with a way to solve it that no one’s seen before. Not just the best model of the old system that didn't work. Thinking outside-the-box, those crazy idea guys that can move the walls and markets that limit you, is what we are doing.

I think many of you are just seeing another piece gallery here and it’s always been about expansion and additional opportunities. Seeing what we can do beyond piece galleries as artist.
--Mary ellen anderson

This is kind of funny.

Mary Ellen, the comments here make it pretty clear that these pope do not need you.

What is even more evident.... YOU don't need any of them.

Or at least I hope your business model wasn't dependent on them.

What you will learn about dealing with artist as a gallery owner is it is like herding cats.

Lol, Floyd.

I've already gotten in trouble for mentioning the ‘cat’ mentality artists can have towards business, and you are correct that I don’t need artists to succeed; I've done remarkably well. Why that’s not a plus considering all the terrible odds everyone posts don’t know. But the important thing is that if you can’t get this, you couldn't utilize this opportunity. So in a way it’s a logic test.

Artist build their careers on the question who will sell or buy my art pieces, and never give a thought to what else they could do with their talents. How else they could leverage their careers and sales. If an artist can’t see the difference between these 2 career basis, they can’t start to understand what they can do about it.

Even if artists are visionary enough to see the market potential within them, they rarely have the market expertise needed or the time required to administer those market; and that’s what we’re trying to do here. But you first have to be willing to consider the question of whether you have a problem with untapped market potential, regardless of whether you have a piece-gallery problem? And see the difference between the two.

-- mary ellen anderson

I would like to thank you, Dominic Piperata, for your insightful, succinct, careful, elucidation of the workings of an art galley.

I am tempted to send you a check for sixty bucks! The information, you have imparted is certainly well worth the price.

Very special thanks for this bit,

“Perfected Consignment form with the county registrar where the gallery is located.” I look forward to installing prints on mine in a couple of places (on consignment) and will make sure to do this.)

Mary Ellen wrote;

“Domanic, I've already responded to these innuendo and peoples refusal to consider. See post to Walter 7 days ago.”

First of all, I do not consider what I wrote as innuendo. And, as for your revering to Domanic's comments as the same? It sounds to me as though; while you have stated before you are seeking feedback, you are rejecting such, as has been offered, offhand and simply asserting your superior wisdom when it comes to what you imply are poor, ignorant, paranoid, subjugated artists that have too long been taken advantage of by those money grubbing owners of art galleries that have been doing things wrong for so many years.


I have visited your latest rendition of the MEA website, and I must say that I am not impressed. Yet, I wish you luck.

It appears your gallery is now representing three other artists, as well as yourself. And while the page suggests these artists have a cv as well as websites, these are listed but unavailable.

But wait. You did say this was a work is progress. But why make such names available and not make their galleries available not to mention their C Vs? (What looks like a link is not)


And what the heck is this all about, anyway?

“I've tried to explain that it’s not based on trusting me anyway.” --- Mary Ellen.

Here you make an offer which you call an “opportunity”---read your OP again please---and blatantly state that it is not about trust?

Of course it is about trust. And to mention once more, I wonder why it is that you continue to post remarks on this thread from two separate FAA accounts.

Walter,
I call your's and Dominic's comments innuendos because even I don't know what your point is, let alone what the disdain and anger are about. I rent both loaders and art. The website a WIP. I have a account on FAA as an individual and a gallery. Sorry, but so what? You assume because I hadn't posted something that it's bad, being hidden, or doesn't exist. Then I post them, and instead of say 'oh ok' you say I haven't posted all my artists or something else yet. What am i trying to prove here and why?

I've responded to all points on the contract; so what feedback am I not responding to?. I think all of them were just wrong assumptions. I corrected them but does that count as rejection or not listening? I'm suppose to correct to the mistake? You post checklist of warnings, like new gallery failure rates, length in business, etc that I've blown away but are counted as demerits not achievement. I have no idea how you've come to conclusions like I'm not throughout, knowledgeable, failed?

As for ["simply asserting your superior wisdom when it comes to what you imply are poor, ignorant, paranoid, subjugated artists that have too long been taken advantage of by those money grubbing owners of art galleries that have been doing things wrong for so many years. ]

Is math and business logic superior wisdom? MEA pays better than the piece gallery; what was it $576 vs $300.
Is the difficulty mathematical understanding or are "poor, ignorant, paranoid, subjugated artists that have too long been taken advantage of by those money grubbing owners of art galleries that have been doing things wrong for so many years" your problem? Math is math, and result are results. If you're not believing in science, I think this is a pretty fair assessment.

What I mean by “I've tried to explain that it’s not based on trusting me anyway.” The structure of how cost and commission are paid makes many of your 'issues' irrelevant. Bringing the artists costs to the top of the pile makes discount and sales mostly hurt the gallery and seller. The costs still are going to be paid first, even if it sold at cost. Nobody is profitable if all aren't. There would be no point for the gallery to change artist fees, because they'd just be taken off the top and they'd make no commission. Everyone get's equally hurt by waste and inefficiency. There are many other by intention systemic things I've changed for re balancing reasons. Rules and trust are fine and even necessary, but eliminating the motive for the rule is better; much better.

It's a job opportunity, artist are given access to our markets and marketing support (on both gallery and artists markets). MEA is just the artist's commercial platform, ultimately the artist is responsible for their worth. MEA is there to help you reach your potential, supplying that potential is the artists jobs. Just like it is for everyone else. This is NOT a "you've made it" gallery, it's a "here is a chance to make it" gallery. MEA does everything it can to promote you, and comes up with a specific marketing plan, which would state if there would be any outside costs (there is never a gallery cost to artists-again no point) like the $30 for an artist's FAA account. But artist has to approve it.

So yeah, I'm baffled. Don't know what my crime or insult is. How you think I'm scamming artists and for what, money? Even what success is, if it's not what I've done? Why you insist on comparing apples to oranges (piece-gallery to career-gallery) and have trouble with entrepreneurs coming up with new business models (you're saying this is an arrogance crime? Shouldn't you be? and... really, that's a crime?).

-- mary ellen anderson

Artists are always falling victim to scams, not to say that this is such one. But shelling out $60 is a lot these days, especially when the market is saturated and there is never really any guarantee.

Mary Ellen has done a fantastic job describing what her proposal is and is not.

People can decide whether to participate or not. As far as I am concerned, it is clear what you would get for your money, and how her program works.
I certainly do not understand why people are jumping all over her.

If you do not like her proposal then don't sign up for it..... go play in a different playground.

There is absolutely NO evidence that her program is a scam. NONE!

What is going on here is character assignation with zero proof. I can't for the life of me think of what possible motive some of you have.

I agree with Dave and Floyd. Most artists do not benefit from some locked-in, gallery commitment. Most are always looking for some kind of exposure, grabbing it from wherever we can. This has been the history for artists for generations. Mary Ellen has layed out the proposal. What is the real risk? Are the cynics afraid that their work will be stolen, if delivered to the gallery? Otherwise a $60 outlay for promotional causes scarcely will set anyone back. Frankly, I feel juried shows are more likely to scam me than Mary Ellen's proposal--you know, the juried art shows that charge fees for submission, when there already seems to be a select group that is known by the jury and admitted accordingly.

"especially when the market is saturated and there is never really any guarantee."

Can someone please give me an example where, in any business, there is a guarantee?

I find it had to believe that the scammers, looking to make money (the key word here is "money") are being targeted any more frequency then other people that may actually have money. After all most artist are always begging poor.

She has been beaten quite a bit here, I agree with that. My issue is that I have seen very few places charge to submit. And, that's not even a guarantee that your work will be accepted. Although the fee is not astronomical, it might be difficult for others. I know of a dozen galleries that would never charge someone to look at their work to see if it is good enough for the gallery. To me, the gallery is getting paid for their time to look and read. Their time is considered more valuable than the artists. That is where I draw the line.

It takes money to make money - and that is where many artists and new photographer fail.
Mary Ellen's proposal is fine and right up front in explanation - IF you are up to it. If you aren't - don't grouse about it. Let's move on.

I agree with Roy...

John,
I do understand on the $60. Another way you might look at this is if you were shipping a piece of work to a piece-gallery for $60, you would be risking it all on one bet in that ever increasing glutted proprietary markets of that gallery.

If you're with MEA than that $60 get you bets in many markets (prints, t-shirts, commissions, etc) and one bet for every piece of work you have too. And permanent exhibitions. Besides that then we're (fine art) something new. This isn't a glutted market, it's a created market (and in business created markets are better markets ;)

So piece-gallery offer 1 temporary bet in terrible market, OR MEA where you get all of those bets, plus multiple (virtually unlimited) permanent bets in new markets? As others have said, risk is unavoidable in business but you can play the odds.

@ Dave, Floyd, Roy, and others
Thank you, I'm touched by your comments and support.

-- mary ellen anderson

@ Jon,
Even if we agree that you’re paying to have your work considered, don’t forget that it’s for consideration for a job not what pieces to hang. The gallery has to consider not just your work but your potential against all marketing ideas?

Whatever your definition of the above, how long, in time, would it take you to fairly consider the above? Now multiply that by 4 jurors and your guess at a professional curators billable rate (hint it's in the 3-digit range) = ?

Now add to that the time difference it takes to unpack and install 1 piece of your work and the time it will take the gallery to simply setup your images on FAA. I normally rewrite descriptions and keywords, etc. Time to ‘get-to-know’ you and your work and write up a marketing plan, then setting you up in these markets? Just because artists aren't paying this cost doesn't mean it’s free. I’m risking and paying far more than $60.

But a keyword you used was “paying for”. The bottom line is in business you can’t afford to just be polite. If you give away your time, it’s abused. I have intentionally place no other restrictions or requirements on artists here (plus what I hope is the contract to die for as an artist). How do I keep this from being a free-4-all? It’s already going to cost me to do this, and I simply can’t afford to have people wasting my time or disrespecting me. This is the internet, and I’m as vulnerable to the unscrupulous as it is from the artist’s side.
--mary ellen anderson

Many thanks to everyone for a most entertaining thread! I couldn't find time to read it all but t think everyone has been incredibly polite and patient. However, whilst I realise that the Tate gallery is situated in a redundant power station in London, I don't think I'll get involved in this enterprise. Good luck everyone, Tateh