Nelson Mandela 1918 - 2013

Rest in peace.

I was sad to hear it. May he rest in peace.

What a man, what an amazing journey. RIP

An amazing human! Will be missed by the whole world.

Nelson Mandela was the Gandhi of South Africa. He had directed a peaceful, nonviolent campaign against the South African government and its racist policies for 20 years. He was the fist president of South Africa. A symbol of global peacemaking, he won the Nobel Peace Prize in 1993.

His gentle persistence, and long years of imprisonment, unjust, his devotion to 'the cause of freedom', have changed the world for the better, immeasurably. A fine role model, a decent human being. RIP, Sir.

Actually, he founded the armed wing of the ANC. He was a good guy whose achievements were exceptional and vision was exemplary, but he was not a non-violent Gandhi (and I'm not convinced Gandhi was quite the saint he is made out to be, either).

Nelson Mandela Alive

To Strive
Driven
Destined to win?
Hearts of fire
Passions of right
Human rights!!

The slaying of hate
By words of peace
Triumphant through words
Spoken with humbled might
Written in faith
Empowered by beliefs
Ignited by cruelty, seen and felt
Lifted by the people
Carried by truths

Now laying at peace

A mission accomplished
A job done well
Asleep but always
ALIVE!

A living voice
Can you hear him?
He stands proud
Silent
Watching

Saying the message!

SLAY THE HATE
by words of faith

©Jason Christopher
6th December 2013

A true hero and inspiration. May he rest in peace.

Nelson Mandela changed the world -- primarily by bringing hidden and ignored truths to light. By making people face themselves in ways they hadn't before.

A job well done.

Rest in peace, sir.

I liked what Prez Obama said..."he belongs to the Ages now"

“We can change the world and make it a better place. It is in you hands to make a difference” - Nelson Mandela (1918-3013).

I felt like I had lost someone very close to me, that I had always looked up to, someone who was so often on my mind because his courage was unequivacol. we all need to keep the echo of his voice and beliefs in our minds and hearts. He will never die.

An echo to Jason`s poem Nelson Mandela Alive


He’s Still Alive
(A tribute to Nelson Mandela)

his heart was ceased
he couldn’t inhale any more air intake
and can no longer be here with us
but the changes
he made
for his country
and for the world
would undoubtedly keep him alive
in the history
of mankind

inspired
by what he left
his human rights torch will be carried on
to shine and make
this world
brighter
and better

Thao Chuong
2013-12-06

Not all of us lament the passing of the old Communist.

Paul Cowan : "Actually, he founded the armed wing of the ANC. He was a good guy whose achievements were exceptional and vision was exemplary, but he was not a non-violent Gandhi (and I'm not convinced Gandhi was quite the saint he is made out to be, either)."

You and I must have been living in a parallel universe as other people don't seem to be aware that he sanctioned or 'signed off bombings even whilst still in prison (1983 Church St bombing in Pretoria). He never renounced the violence, that's why he was kept in prison so long.

" I liked what Prez Obama said..."he belongs to the Ages now" "

These words were attributed to Secretary of War Edwin Stanton upon the death of Abraham Lincoln, although the quote is considered somewhat apocryphal. I would have thought that the man who considers himself Lincolnesque could have come up with something original. Doesn't he have people for that?

Mick Flynn

Paul Cowan : "Actually, he founded the armed wing of the ANC. He was a good guy whose achievements were exceptional and vision was exemplary, but he was not a non-violent Gandhi (and I'm not convinced Gandhi was quite the saint he is made out to be, either)."

Mick Flynn: "You and I must have been living in a parallel universe as other people don't seem to be aware that he sanctioned or 'signed off bombings even whilst still in prison (1983 Church St bombing in Pretoria). He never renounced the violence, that's why he was kept in prison so long."

We are witnessing the apotheosis of a politician, it's a rare sight. I don't like it when history is airbrushed out of existence to support a personality cult, but most people seem to prefer romance to reality.
It's quite clear that history has already vindicated the use of terror (ineffective though it was) as a legitimate form of resistance against the apartheid state, and Mandela benefits both from having what is perceived today as a stronger moral case than most revolutionary movements as well as from his transparent honesty and lack of avarice while in office - something that sets him apart from almost all post-independence leaders in Africa and the great bulk of leaders worldwide. So he does deserve his applause despite his adoption of terrorism and even despite the petty tyranny he allowed his wife to engage in in Soweto during his imprisonment (I wonder if the "Mandela United Football Club" was a taste of what a 1960s Mandela government would have been? We'll never know).
I did think it was vomit-inducing for David Camaron try to curry favour with the masses by lowering the flag at 10 Downing Street. It was pure grandstanding. At least I can believe that Obama was a true devotee of Mandela's.

He was also human, with all of its failings, but I FEEL, that his main aim was to improve the lives of those who suffered greatly...

Maria, I agree. That's not really so unusual: when I was involved in student politics (an unbearably long time ago!) I knew people of all colours - from far Right to far Left - who believed sincerely that they had a formula that would make life better for people. What is extraordinary is that Mandela actually succeeded in improving the lives of an enormous number of people. Not many manage that.

Political discussion rule relaxed in this thread.

Keep it on topic and civil

So sad another geat human being has left the planet. He accomplished so much in his lifetime.

Heroes are immortal...

Posted on Youtube by the New York Times

The tributes I've seen do not omit the violence. That is not being airbrushed from history.

He achieved his mission in life, which began as a young man in the 40's when he went to Johannesburg. Most of the news coverage is from after his final imprisonment, but he began his mission long before that.

He is truly a life-long hero, and the respect that is being shown now at his death is earned and well-deserved.

While I cannot condone the violence that he not only supported but encouraged, I do admire his accomplishments for his people. However violence is never the answer and I do believe that he could have accomplished the same greatness without it. That is just my opinion and I may be way off base. I do agree that he did great things for his people and their lives are better because he lived. I believe he will be remembered longer for the good than the bad. I would hope that history would be that merciful to all of us.

Try to find more about his live, ANC, his wife, violence, rasism on whites etc. There are think you will never hear in media.

Paul..I agree with you..and too many people go unrecognised...but musn't we always acknowledge his pure intent...anyone's pure intent to improve communication that makes a better world for everyone..:)

beautiful moving video Poe...I can only feel respect and humbled

Maria - I really don't know about "pure intent", I can't see inside anybody else's mind. All I can say is that the result of his stand justified it.

Donna - violence is frequently the answer. Violence created the USA, violence created the Irish Republic, violence created Israel. Violence also quelled the Taliban and disposed of bin Laden. When rival political, intellectual or religious movements reach deadlock and both sides insist on having the upper hand, then violence may be the only way to break that deadlock and set a new course for the future.

Apartheid and systematic racism in South Africa. It was the reason for better change

I hope that all those of you who advocate, or at least tolerate, political violence will be as reasonable when the time comes to take the United States back from the current tyranny.

@Geoffrey...I'm starting to feel a bit violent, would you please stop pushing it. Your opinion has been duly noted and I'm doing really good right now to not give a thorough opinion right back...

The thread was started as a gesture of respect. Feel free to take that as a hint.

Are we censoring opinion, now? By suggesting ... violence? What are you trying to say? I should not comment further, or else ... what?

Geoffrey, you left the topic on Nelson Mandela when you stated "when the time comes to take the United States back from the current tyranny." Since we both live in the US and it is actually a free country last time I checked, we are both free to our opinions about our country's politics but politics are not allowed here. Abbie relaxed the no politics rule for this thread, but I don't think she meant to ignore it completely.

But feel free to continue, no skin off my back. I'll try and refrain from responding. It will make no difference to me if you are banned from the discussions for awhile. Maybe that would give you time to look up the definition of "tyranny" because it has nothing to do with the United States.

The point was germane to the discussion of political violence and the ends justifying the means, as has been discussed here. As for the US being a free country, not everyone will agree with that. I certainly do not. If Mandela was justified in using any means to resist oppression, then who is not? One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter, after all, and Mandela was on the US terrorist watch list until Bush rescinded that order in 2008.

You tell me that it's about "respect". If Adolph Hitler died this week, I would not feel compelled to recall his honorable service to his country in WWI (twice decorated for heroism), nor his tireless efforts in rebuilding a militarily defeated and economically crushed nation into the economic and military powerhouse of a rising Europe. I would simply say, good riddance to bad rubbish.

You pick Mandela as a hero. Maybe Che Guevara is a hero, too. Or Fidel Castro. Or Moammar Ghaddafi. Or Robert Mugabe. (the last three were championed by Mandela at one time or another). I pick Thomas Paine, Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin and Ayn Rand as heroes.

Mandela endorsed political violence, including random bombing attacks against non-combatants. He, and his wife, embraced "necklacing" of political adversaries. I would not endorse violence against civilians, but I would endorse armed resistance against armed government agents. I think that time is approaching here in the US.

Consider this, from Michael Cannon of the Cato Institute, testifying before Congress recently:

“There is one last thing to which the people can resort if the government does not respect the restrains that the constitution places on the government. Abraham Lincoln talked about our right to alter our government or our revolutionary right to overthrow it. That is certainly something that no one wants to contemplate. If the people come to believe that the government is no longer constrained by the laws then they will conclude that neither are they.”

Or this congressional testimony, on December 3, from Law Professor Jonathan Turley:

"The danger is quite severe. The problem with what the president is doing is that he's not simply posing a danger to the constitutional system. He's becoming the very danger the Constitution was designed to avoid. That is the concentration of power in every single branch. This Newtonian orbit that the three branches exist in is a delicate one but it is designed to prevent this type of concentration. There is two trends going on which should be of equal concern to all members of Congress. One is that we have had the radical expansion of presidential powers under both President Bush and President Obama. We have what many once called an imperial presidency model of largely unchecked authority. And with that trend we also have the continued rise of this fourth branch. We have agencies that are quite large that issue regulations. The Supreme Court said recently that agencies could actually define their own or interpret their own jurisdiction."

We may come to face our own Mandela moment sooner than you think.

You said that you were feeling "violent". That comment was directed against me, personally. I find that troubling. And you think that I need a vacation? Really?

paul..yes, neither can I...I should have said my feeling that his intent was pure...meaning to do what he had to do without violence, even though it seems that that was almost impossible...

@Geoffrey, yes your comment insinuating that there is a need to take the United States back from the current tyranny made me angry and I choose to use the word "violent" since you seemed perfectly okay using the word yourself. I found your statement to be very "troubling" too so I suppose we are even on annoying each other. Also the fact that you count Ayn Rand as one of your heros explains alot, I can't personally find any way to relate to that statement at all.

The original post was to pay respect to a man, if you didn't have any, you could have just not commented.

edit: I relate that to that group of idiots that show up at military funerals and harass the family, it's rude and the wrong time to protest.

2nd edit!: Geoffrey, we would have probably annoyed each other less if this discussion had been in person, it's harder to do that online. So, maybe a beer sometime and we can debate to our hearts content.

Got all your edits in? You threatened me. I didn't threaten you.

Maybe you need to calm down. Maybe you need some time away.

Geoffrey, if you were referring to me, I advocate or tolerate revolutionary violence in the same way as I advocate or tolerate the moon orbiting the earth. It is one of the ways that humans organise their affairs when they reach a genuine impasse - that's realpolitik. You appear to be eagerly seeking revolution, which happens to be a mistake in your situation because you don't have either the support or the strength to secure power in that way. Neither did Mandela, so his resort to force was a miscalculation. Castro, Mao and Lenin, on the other hand, were right, because they did have the support and will to enable them to achieve their aims. The price of miscalculating can be horrific, as the Syrians will tell you; so can the price of getting it right, as Bosnia showed.

No, Paul. I was not referring to you.

I'm missing where I threatened you, sorry.

Here: " Melissa BittingerE-Mail @Geoffrey...I'm starting to feel a bit violent, would you please stop pushing it. "

Hmmmm...
let me share this quote for everyone..

“Whenever the devil harasses you, seek the company of men or drink more, or joke and talk nonsense, or do some other merry thing. Sometimes we must drink more, sport, recreate ourselves, and even sin a little to spite the devil, so that we leave him no place for troubling our consciences with trifles. We are conquered if we try too conscientiously not to sin at all. So when the devil says to you: do not drink, answer him: I will drink, and right freely, just because you tell me not to.”
― Martin Luther

Followed by " Your opinion has been duly noted and I'm doing really good right now to not give a thorough opinion right back... " so...a threat to give you an opinion, I can see how that would be a concern.

I did offer to have a beer sometime!

Your point? Drinking makes a threat less a threat? What?

Nevermind. I think we're done here.

Nelson Mandela: RIP..may African Nations have more the likes of you...

Thank you, Nelson.

http://images.wikia.com/theshield/images/2/21/Fire-necklace-2.jpg

Summons to Nations

A call to peace
and for all the sovereign nations or at war
the road was endless
but only few numbered souls
walked the balancing act
for the freedom sound
over the belfry of common sense.

The selfless act
so seldom seen,
will not perish to seed the land
blasphemed in ages to rest in our hands
so that inequality may burned
to fertile all our sons
cleansing sinful forbearance.

©December2013

Says a lot to me when someone feels violent on seeing a different opinion to theirs Melissa!


Would anyone of the hero worshipers like to dispute the content of this letter regarding Mandelas involvement with violence?

The following letter appeared in The Citizen of 26th September 2013, showing that South Africans are at last waking up to the truth regarding the evil nature of "Nelson" Mandela :-

Dear Sir,

Why is it so difficult for people to associate Nelson Mandela with the ANC? He is the ANC. He was president of the ANC and he was South Africa's first president representing the ANC.

How can Cliff Buchler say that Nelson Mandela "helped usher in a violence-free revolution"? (Citizen 25.9.13).

Violence free? What planet is Buchler living on? The ANC came to power through violence most savage - necklacing their own people, killing policemen and councilors, and murdering so-called sell-outs in their thousands. On June 3 1990, Nelson Mandela told a press conference after leaving a private clinic that "the only type of violence we accept is organized violence in the form of armed action which is properly controlled and where the targets have been carefully selected".

In response to Mandela's call for "targeted" violence, attacks against Black policemen (Mandela's targets) increased from 87 in January 1990 to 886 by 18/5/90. Deaths increased from 1 to 27 in the same period, while homes attacked increased from 45 to 270, and police vehicle attacks went up from 100 to 651.

A violence-free revolution? Mandela never foreswore violence - he refused when asked to do so as a condition of his release. Since the ANC took power and has systematically debased, looted and turned this country into a criminal's paradise, we haven't heard one word from this man whom the world has turned into a demi-God [sic]. Has South Africa forgotten its history? Mr. Buchler appears to have done so.

D. Lawrence,

Midvaal.

When I relaxed politics in here I did mean relating to, and only relating to Nelson Mandela.

Keep the USA out of this unless related directly to him, ie he was involved

If you cannot do that then we will revert to to the rules again

Nelson Mandela – Rest in Peace, brother... you surely deserve it. Your country and people are grateful.

If ever there was a time for Enver Larney to visit and contribute to a thread on FAA – this would be it!

For those of you in the USA who have a need to denigrate the man...

What was Apartheid? Apart. Apart-hood. It was a system or policy of legal segregation based on race. The law denied blacks and Indians and anyone of "color" the right to vote. Education was segregated and citizenship was deprived. People were forcibly removed from their homes...

What was "Petty-Apartheid?" Whites could only marry whites...mixed marriages between whites and any "colored" race were prohibited.

Wow – Much of the above suspiciously sounds just like what was happening in the deep south of the United States - legal segregation based on race. Mixed marriages were illegal and punishable by death. Education was segregated – non-whites could not vote... and the list goes on. Is this what you want to go backwards to?

Apartheid was compared to communism and white supremacy. Southern white supremacy was compared to communism...

Sure – there was great internal turmoil and violence in South Africa. People were repressed and violence was met with violence... In The USA there was great turmoil and to be frank – violence was not at the hands of non-whites but rather, done to non-whites. They were spat upon, pissed on, raped and lynched with a rope tied around their necks and hung with their eyeballs popping out in front of mobs of people who smiled and laughed at their deaths.

Are tortures like necklacing/neck-lacing (forcing tires around necks and setting them on fire) and lynching/hanging (forcing heavy ropes around necks and stringing them up over trees) really so different? I don't think so...

Again, Rest in Peace, Nelson Mandela!

--Donna Proctor

Geoffrey Coelho: Good one.
Also, have you heard about Soviet invasion in 1968 to Czechoslovakia? Well ANC supported it. So no chance for me to like him.

@Mick "Says a lot to me when someone feels violent on seeing a different opinion to theirs Melissa! " I was clear on what about Geoffrey's statement made me angry.

So you are clear on the matter on what ticked me off it was his statement advocating - "political violence..........when the time comes to take the United States back from the "current tyranny". That went beyond an opinion in my mind.
So...yeah when I see where someone is an advocating a need for this in our current administration??? What can I say, it more than annoyed me at the time. It was also a statement going completely off the topic of Nelson Mandela. To add, I did attempt a verbal peace offering which was verbally scoffed at. You are certainly free to your opinion on the matter.

It seems that it's OK for the people here who are idolising Mandela to condone violence, bombing, and torture by him and his associates?

Please explain to me HOW you are condoning or certainly choosing to ignore his past violence, really, that is exactly what you are doing when you refuse to acknowledge that violence is WRONG against anyone for whatever reason.

@Melissa You said you felt violent (towards someone) when you read a post on here, that worries me, it's as simple s that.

Martin Capek, it wasn't just Czechoslovakia as I'm sure you know, the ANC were everywhere.

Fellow terrorist Gerry Adams, on meeting Nelson Mandela...

We shook hands in his office: "Ah, comrade Gerry," he said. "I'll not wash my hand for a week."

Nothing's really black or white. People adopt causes and positions because they seem right to them at the time, within the orbit of their own social interests, and they rationalise why bad stuff sometimes has to happen for the greater good. People never do anything because "they hate freedom" as someone once said, they do it because they love having freedom for their own ideas and their own constituents. Apartheid was freedom for the White minority. "Necklacing" was to win freedom for the Black majority. Israel and apartheid South Africa were allies because they had common interests and problems. Mandela and the ANC, Castro, Gadaffi and Arafat were allies because they represented a common set of ideas. Those ideas were good for some people, bad for others. But I think that like Pinochet, Thatcher and Reagan, all these leaders were honestly trying to do the best they could for their peoples. That's why most people hate one half of them and adorre the other half - it's perspectives.

Of course it's perspective Paul, I myself am not disagreeing with Mandelas early actions (in context), nor even those of Gerry Adams, again, in context, but unlike so many I'm not denying that these things never happened and I'll wager that the supporters of Nelson Mandela and 'freedom' on this thread will have possibly asked for it to be closed when their views were challenged.

I may be wrong.

I have posted things in other forums (controlled by me) which challenge left wing thinking about 'freedom', and find that the most virulent, stifling, and aggresive people are very the ones who claim to support free speech at the outset of disscusions, then revert to type and try and shut down debate (asking admins to 'kick' or ban posters who disagree) and rallying their troops via PM's (which aren't always private!) as soon as their views are dissected a little.

Let us stop talking about forum members now and start back on the topic, thanks

The most touching Mandela tribute came from the least expected place



A South African chain store has laid on one of the most touching tributes to Nelson Mandela -- it was in the form of a flash mob.

Woolworths teamed up with the Soweto Gospel Choir, who posed as shoppers and store workers at the Parkview store in Johannesburg.

The choir then began an "impromptu" rendition of Asimbonanga 'We have not seen him'

Source: Yahoo South Africa News Article

Thank you for sharing this Carmen, just beautiful. I found the translation in the Article you linked, tried searching to determine the language, couldn't find any source to say for sure, but with a little help from google translation, I believe it is Zulu.

Mandela would be tickled by this conversation. The honesty would not go unnoticed. He didn't want to be revered. He knew what he was and made no excuses for what he had to do at different times in his political life, for what he felt to be necessary. Violence was sometimes involved.

He made no apologies except for this one, “I am not a saint, unless you think of a saint as a sinner who keeps on trying."

Unfortunately, his blood and sweat has not solved all, and his countrymen still suffer greatly, for a multitude of reasons. The tidy box , which we all want to exist, doesn't necessarily.

He did his best, and should be remembered that way.

Paul Cowen has it right.

Paul CowanE-Mail "Nothing's really black or white. People adopt causes and positions because they seem right to them at the time, within the orbit of their own social interests, and they rationalise why bad stuff sometimes has to happen for the greater good. People never do anything because "they hate freedom" as someone once said, they do it because they love having freedom for their own ideas and their own constituents. Apartheid was freedom for the White minority. "Necklacing" was to win freedom for the Black majority. Israel and apartheid South Africa were allies because they had common interests and problems. Mandela and the ANC, Castro, Gadaffi and Arafat were allies because they represented a common set of ideas. Those ideas were good for some people, bad for others. But I think that like Pinochet, Thatcher and Reagan, all these leaders were honestly trying to do the best they could for their peoples. That's why most people hate one half of them and adorre the other half - it's perspectives."

Nelson Mandela did make much political, social, economic improvement for the majority of people in South Africa. Please look at the following fact sheet, it may help you comprehend Mr. Mandela's meaningful contribution that has had a positive impact on the living condition of many people.

I subjectively think that while Nelson Mandela is respected and loved by the majority, he must be hated by the minority those who lost their vast privileges created and protected by the Apartheid regime.

I would never say that Nelson Mandela did not make head way. However, his progress was not always without violence, and without bringing up spreadsheets, his countrymen still suffer greatly, and for more reasons than just one.

.

Summons to Nations

A call to peace
and for all the sovereign nations or at war
the road was endless
but only few numbered souls
walked the balancing act
for the freedom sound
over the belfry of common sense.

The selfless act
so seldom seen,
will not perish to seed the land
blasphemed in ages to rest in our hands
so that inequality may burned
to fertile all our sons
cleansing sinful forbearance.


-SaigonDemanila
December 8, 2013



An echo to Saigon`s poem


Of His Death, Funeral, and Mourning

when a man has passed away
regardless
who he was
what he did during his lifetime
and how much
he is loved
or hated

so
often
people
either say nothing
or pay tribute to him
immediately after his death
even if he was their former enemy

probably
for social courtesy
or no one feels alright
to say something nasty
at a farewell

anyway
who would enjoy coming to a mourning gathering and spitting out ugly words from a filthy mouth about the dead?

whatever is going on in this brutal world
Nelson Mandela
Rest in Peace and in the Holy Hands of God

Thao Chuong
2013-12-13

Bill your post was removed

I did say the rules here were relaxed but not in the case of American politics

Posts and threads of a political or religious nature are not permitted on the forum Please use this group for this kind of post http://fineartamerica.com/groups/if-you-cant-stand-the-heat.html

Please read the rules here http://fineartamerica.com/showmessages.php?messageid=260080

HAVE YOUR WORK OF NELSON MANDELA FEATURED IN A GREAT BLOG

With the passing of Nelson Mandela many artist have been inspired to produce their own artistic tribute to the great man.

If you are among those that are producing such work then you should take a look at the Nelson Mandela Tribute Blog at the link below.

http://nelson-mandelatribute.blogspot.co.uk/

The Blog is described as:

A TRIBUTE TO NELSON MANDELA FROM ARTISTS AROUND THE WORLD.

The Blog includes the work of many internationally known artists, plus the artwork of Nelson Mandela himself.

The audience for the Blog is steadily growing.

Have your work shown free among the work of some great artists.

There is no need to do anything other than message Geordie Gardiner here in Fine Art America and you can start by clicking on the little Black Cat avatar above.

That is all that is required, Geordie will sort out everything else that is required but before that take a look at the Blog and I am sure you will agree that it is the place for artwork of Nelson Mandela to be seen.

All the best
Geordie Gardiner

Yes, Geordie asked to put my drawing on the Nelson Mandela blog too! Very nice person.

Hello Savanna,

It's taken a little while for me to find this because I spend most of my time building Blogs but thanks very much for the comment.

Visitors to the Nelson Mandela Blog at the link below is now over 19300 and heading towards 20000.

http://nelson-mandelatribute.blogspot.co.uk/

All the best
Geordie Gardiner