Shipping Charges

Thank you for your explanation.

"we do not try to make a profit on shipping, at all. "

Does that mean you do not make a profit on shipping? Because you didn't actually say that. It would make me more comfortable if you said it outright.

When you set an average shipping charge for an entire country, you're bound to make a profit on shipments that are close to the production facility and lose money on shipments that are far away from the production facility.

On average, however, you don't make any profit. Everything just averages out to zero.

We have shipping equations that we've been using for years. They've proven to be very accurate in most cases. If you find a scenario in which they're a little too high, that's not a conspiracy to profit on shipping... it's just a scenario in which the equation isn't super accurate.

Also - keep in mind, we provide a single shipping charge for a given product no matter where it ships within a country.

If you live near our production facility in North Carolina, for example, you may think that our shipping prices are too high because you're right down the road from the facility. If you live in California, however, you may think that our shipping prices are great because you're very far away... but you're still getting an "average" shipping price as if you were somewhere in middle America.

Sean

I understand now why you stated it that way. Thank you.

A very good explanation. And of course, profit isn't a bad thing anyway. If you don't make a profit, we all lose our investment in time and resources in building a retail outlet on your website. Gouging may be bad, but this seems entirely reasonable to me. And losing money would be much worse, as I said. Thank you.

If the formula you use for shipping works for you then there is nothing more to discuss. It would really bother me if I lived down the street and the company was charging me the same price as someone living in New York. I live in California. I wouldn't purchase that item. Overall as a company sure it averages out for FAA but seems like there should be a better formula based on total weight of the entire order and how far it will travel. Online shoppers like myself usually check more than one site for the same item. There are other sites that sell the exact same images as here. Granted the quality may not be the same but some shoppers are willing to not even think about that if its "close enough." And most understand the return policy also. Again, if I am down the street and my return shipping that I pay is extremely cheaper than what you charged me for I would never visit your site again. That's just my opinion.

Thank you,Sean Really good that you replied, much appreciated.

Thank you, Sean.

Which further illustrates the significance of how the development of a detachable canvas would have on this same scenario!

I really don't understand why this keeps coming up. A while back I started a thread showing shipping charges were actually lower than consumer rates, and others chimed in with examples showing they were relative with negotiated contract rates. It was clear, then, FAA did not use shipping as another profit center.

I don't usually click on threads about shipping costs any more because I have found they are usually generated by people who did not take time to do proper research. They are usually knee-jerk, emotional reactions to high shipping costs which everybody suffers from.

I don't even know why I clicked on this one, or even commented in it either. Must have been a brain fart. Same old, same old.

Oh, and by the way. The time it took Sean to research and prepare a reply to yet another poorly-researched complaint was time he could have used to work on improving FAA.

Think about it.

At least now we have a definitive thread to send people to :/

Thank you for the thorough explanation.

Which is why we either need stickies or for someone to roll threads like this into the faq, Abbie. Best thing would be in the faq.

Yes I need stickies!

I third that! Have some mercy! She needs stickies!

@ Dan= If this was a poorly researched complaint Sean would not have replied. As you said, why waste his time?

The bottom line is shipping is a big business and some companies swear by free shipping while others decry it. Most as he said simply raise the price of the item. However there is research done and anyone can find it with a few searches that show free shipping increase orders in certain types of businesses. I don't think the number of free shipping days FAA had are long enough to get an accurate estimate.

Also some of us have worked in other industries and some still do such as at places like FedEx, UPS and USPS and we know that companies with large volumes receive discounts and companies like FedEx and UPS really try to give these companies the best rates possible.

Amazon and other non-big box companies are not losing money because of shipping. It may be somewhere else but its definitely not because of shipping. Why is that? Well, they have large warehouses. There are no buildings like Walmart, Target and Best Buy to purchase, fill with employees, health care expenses, maintenance etc. With the Cafe Press example the year prior their losses were in the millions and not 82,000 as Sean displayed. Could trying to compete with others and reducing prices too much be the problem. Yes it could. And I agree with Sean if you lower both price and offer free shipping together it could be your death sentence. But public companies as such usually simply buy up smaller companies or merge to try and hang on.

Sean and FAA is bigger than any individual here and if one of us or even a few thousand of us decide to quit its not a loss. Individual's here are simply trying to do their best to reach all possible markets. Same with FAA as Pixels and DP were created. So basically you are telling individual's to not complain or seek ways to develop or improve their own marketing strategy. Not to talk politics but National Healthcare is based on lowering prices based on volume. That's all most people were asking. With the volume of FAA why is shipping still more expensive than other places. He answered that kinda. Robert's example doesn't apply. He mentioned FAA's formula for shipping. FedEx, UPS and USPS offers software that calculates shipping for any item a company ships. As I said earlier if the formula is working for FAA then there is no further discussion.

WE don't live in China. We can voice our opinions and ideas. I take my hat off to Sean because his tough decison to allow such is what will eventually set FAA apart from the other POD's. Surely its an advantage to FAA to have thousands of brainstorming ideas coming up even if some are rather off the wall and bizarre in nature.

A good article about shipping charges for small businesses on the Internet.

http://www.entrepreneur.com/article/64726

"Shipping Charges
Once you know what it'll cost you to ship items to customers, then you have to develop a sensible shipping policy to pass onto your customers. If you charge too much, you risk losing business. In fact, 63 percent of consumers surveyed by Jupiter Media Matrix Inc. cited excessive shipping costs as the reason they cancelled a purchase.

Retailers looking to make big profits on shipping stand to lose business. "Shipping shouldn't be a profit center, or customers will resent it"

Sean,

In my case with a possible order of 540 pieces would you then consider shipping by pallet and charging less? I feel I may have lost this job due to the $12,000 shipping charge that showed up to my client on checkout.

Thanks Sean for the very thoughtful, data-driven, and time-consuming response. It's pretty cool that you post here!

Yes Michelle

You can contact Customer Support by email http://fineartamerica.com/contactus.html

I appreciate the explanation on offering free or reduced shipping as a way to generate sales. The Cafe Press example was a good one. I did sign up there and had a look around, but did not like what I saw. Please do not become Cafe Press.

OK! Thanks Abbie! I'll let my client know...

Sean,

So is the width more important than the weight?

I gave an example of a large pano print (96" I think it was). One in acrylic and one in canvas. The canvas was about three times as much to ship as the acrylic. I would have thought the acrylic would have weighed more.

I think Phillip brings up a good point. It is more important that buyer understands the shipping process and potential choices since this can be a deciding factor in completing or abandoning the purchase. What I mean by understand is maybe a little more transparency. Some shipping costs are going to high through no fault of FAA but if the buyer does not understand that then will have a negative experience and probably not shop here again.

I was just looking at B&H shipping process. I am on a tablets or I would have included an image. Once you enter your country and zip code up pops a shipping method with 7 options. The options range from $0.00 to $352 for shipping. Each option has a different number of days and different carriers. Carriers like UPS, fedex, and USPS. This way as the buyer I see all the choices available to me and pick the option that will meet my needs and budget. This is a more enjoyable experience and I do not feel like the vendor is screwing me. Each option tells me how long it will take for the shipment to arrive so it is very easy and informative for the buyer. Very transparent.

Agree with Philip and John. Good idea. Thanks too Sean for taking your valuable time to explain this.

Actual Walmart review: Don't sue me Walmart. Is this illegal?

I purchased this from Walmart.com as it was $100 cheaper than the website I was going to purchase it from. Thought that was a great deal, but I was unsatisfied in the way that they strecthed the canvas. It was not delivered as pictured online. They stretched it so there's not much of the path... just a bit of it at the bottom, making it look unbalanced and not as nice as it is pictured online. Not sure if everybody's canvas is strecthed the same, but this was what was sent to me. Now I question whether this is why it was so much cheaper. The colors do appear to show more oranges than reds too, so consider that if you are trying to coordinate with the colors in your room. It's okay, but I'm not so sure I would have made this purchase if I saw it in person as opposed to buying online.

Bravo to FAA for quality but you are still losing some through the cracks. Yes, this exact piece is found on FAA. Not all Walmart art is 14.99. There are pieces for 700.00 and shipping was free. Would they had purchased it if they could have saved 50.00 in shipping? We will never know.

What if FAA added more to their markup to cover shipping and reduce the shipping cost in the final invoice? Or even better. Give the artist the option in pricing to absorb some of the shipping price in lieu of say a discount? Or at minimum give us a heads up when FAA do decide to offer free shipping so we could market appropriately. FAA's markup on the other side to reduce shipping cost should not affect individual's since one artist charges 17 dollars and another charges 165.00 for that 8 x 5.33 image anyways.

Just a thought.

Thanks for addressing the issue Sean :)

@ Robert - Dan is 100% correct that there is absolutely no conflict if you use the same printer in NC... it's all about business - yours. Sean is a businessman and I dare say, he would agree that if you can get it done for much cheaper, you should. :)

--Donna Proctor

Edit - I'm not a volume shipper.. but for anyone like me who ships their own work - I have a Fed-Ex account and have shipped originals out through them. It has always been cheaper for me when I bring it directly to the local Fed-Ex office, than if they pick it up, or take it to another business for Fed-Ex pickup.

@Robert...a salient point....cost to individual vs cost to bulk seller/shipper....enormous difference

Again, I'd like to see those numbers - individual vs. bulk - are they Holy Grail? Are they closely guarded secrets? Are they very specific to a given business and a given business arrangement between FedEx and that business?

I do not understand why the shipper can not use one of the many other Fed Ex services? At my day job I handle shipping large motors occasionally. For under 150#'s would use Fed Ex Ground, something
over 150 #s a Fed Ex Priority (LTL on a skid) say 300#s would be $ 150.00 and 2day guaranteed delivery. This is estimate for Ft Smith Arkansas to Michigan (rough figures from memory)

For Fed Ex Overnite Heavyweight on a 300# shipment from Michigan to North Carolina it was $1,200.00, this charge includes 80.00 for indoor pickup and 80.00 for indoor delivery and they put it on a plane. So my question is why can't the shipper very easily use one of the better suited Fed Ex services if they want to use them for all of their business? Fed Ex has at least 6 different services depending on weight, delivery time, etc.

We also use Fed Ex Custom Critical where they have a driver or team go door to door starting with a panel van size truck, the same 300#'s from Ft Smith Arkansas to Michigan would be less than $2000.00 and about 15 hours delivery time, there are no discounts, they charge the same rate to anyone for this service.

It seems like a drop down box with more options might be a win-win situation? (I do this on other sites, USPS might be less that UPS if something is sent in a tube without a mat, I let the buyer choose)

Yeah, I agree with some here, if the shipping gets above a certain price or above a certain number of prints, remove the shipping price and tell them to get in touch with FAA for a custom cheaper quote. That will make buyers happy. Good idea !!

Sean, please explain the example I mentioned on the other thread why shipping costs raised nearly $300 for a 36"x72" canvas.



Shipping rates: Museum wrap = $39.95 Gallery wrap $331.02
Same size print in height and width, only thicker in depth!!
1.5" x 1.5" stretcher bars (gallery wrap) or 5/8" x 5/8" stretcher bars (museum wrap)

And more than likely it would have been shipped in the same sized box!!!

Please reply to me directly also in case I miss your explanation here.

i'm wondering why if i ship one print its $9 or so, but if i do 2 of the same it's like $13, and add a 3rd and so on it's lie $3.00 each extra. it's flat, it all goes in the same box, it should be the same price. or at least up to a limit, of say - 50 prints, because that would weigh quite a bit. i was pricing something for myself - 16x24 if it helps. thanks


---Mike Savad

And what if the shipping address is in the SAME STATE as the FAA printing facility? I live about thirty miles away from it.

Examples citing state-to-distant-state shipping costs, thus, are lost on me. I am in the SAME STATE as the FAA printing facility. The rate should be from one TOWN to ANOTHER town in the SAME STATE - a thirty minute or so drive from the factory + packing materials + load time + unload time.

FedEx and UPs have a limit...like 144" inches for all dimensions and one is doubled...I forget the formula....once you go over, it becomes freight....and good luck insuring art as freight!!!

Okay, THAT's an interesting complication, Marlene B.

What are the classifications, and what advantage does one classification offer over another? Is insurance the issue? And why would freight be difficult to insure?

most companies i have contacted insist on art being crated if they take it at all. the nature of freight is far different than regular shipping apparently.
the company i use to ship and build crates as needed, get superb prices that they pass on to me....it would make no sense to check out the "anyone off the street checking a price online"
instead of using a shipping company that get huge discounts based on their volume.
my last shipment was over the limit by about 2 inches...it had to go freight...my shipper loves Fedex. He feels it is safer to fright by air than ship by ground. His price was under $300...my price when checked online as a nobody, straight retail was over $600. now, at $300, my shipper is still making money, as is FedEx.
straight from the horse's mouth:

Shipment Size and Weight Restrictions
•
With
FedEx
Express
®
U.S. services, you can ship
packages up to 150 lbs.; up to 119" in length and 165"
in length and girth.
•
With
FedEx
Express
international
services,
you
can
ship packages up to 150 lbs.; up to 108" in length and
130" in length and girth.
•
With
FedEx
Express
®
Freight Services, you can ship
individual skids of 150 lbs. or more. Skids exceeding
2,200 lbs. in weight or exceeding 70" in height, 119"
in length, or 80" in width require prior approval.
•
With
FedEx
Ground
®
services, you can ship packages
up to 150 lbs.; up to 108" in length and 165" in length
plus girth.
•
With
FedEx
Home
Delivery
®
services, you can ship
packages up to 70 lbs.; up to 108" in length and 165"
in length plus girth.
Place yellow and black safety heavyweight labels over the
diagonal corners of your package if it weighs more than
75 lbs. To get the labels, contact your FedEx Express courier
or FedEx account executive, or go to a FedEx Office
®
Print
and
Ship
Center
or
FedEx
World
Service
Center
®
.
Measuring Length and Girth
The
length
and
girth
formula
is
simple.
Here’s
what
you
do:
•
Measure the length, height, and width of the package.
•
Length
and
girth
equals
length
plus
twice
the
width
and twice the height.

Earlier, Marlene, you wrote: "Good luck insuring art as freight."

This seems to imply that art SHOULD be insured, and that freight somehow might disallow such insurance. Your apparent reservation here is what stuck with me. Maybe you could elaborate on that. Thanks.

- Robert K.

As come to be expected, my question about the nearly $300 shipping cost increase for only a 3/4" thicker stretcher bar was not responded from Sean on this thread or by PM.

I'd also like to know why Peter's shipping amounts were so different. The difference in those two amounts is ridiculous.

i can only assume it has to do with the girth of the final package, but even at girth rate, that is kind of high.


---Mike Savad

Old news for sure, but $15.00 shipping for one 5.95 card or one 8X10?? That certainly stopped the customers I had referred even with the promotional discount and we live in the States.

Can we address the specific issue of greetings cards though please. I have a customer in Canada wanting two pictures as 50 greetings cards each, so 100 in total. The cart shows shipping as CAD 38. This seems crazy. How can it be so much?

Welcome to FAA Gary.

It's the birth...oops....girth rate Gary.
Try $25 shipping one only card to me....um, no, don't try, don't cry.........the well's run dry....

Amazon reported their financial results today and they lost $, partly because of high shipping costs which they were at least partially absorbing. They're considering raising their shipping costs for the first time. So I guess this a problem everywhere, not just on FAA.

just wait till amazon loses all those drones.

---Mike Savad

@ Mike Savad, I didn't see an answer to your question: "i'm wondering why if i ship one print its $9 or so, but if i do 2 of the same it's like $13, and add a 3rd and so on it's lie $3.00 each extra. it's flat, it all goes in the same box, it should be the same price. or at least up to a limit, of say - 50 prints, because that would weigh quite a bit. i was pricing something for myself - 16x24 if it helps. thanks."

I understand shipping is priced by weight; charging by piece if the weight is the same does not appear to benefit the seller or the buyer.

Is there any chance of looking into this Abbie and Sean?

It was answered in the first post. FAA averages prices across the country.

Hi Craig

The 1st post addresses the cost of shipping 17 pieces of stretched canvas and I understand the answer based on that situation.

I also understand and agree with the point of destination cost of shipping on a packaged piece of art.

My question is the same as Mikes': If an art collector buys more than 1 image, and it's being shipped to the same address in the same package/tube, why would the shipping price increase if the weight of the package hasn't increased? Is it possible this additional charge comes under the 'handling' part of shipping & handling?

I actually have no problem with FAA shipping charges. Occasionally, buyers question it and I lose sales. I know from my experience on other sites (where I have to estimate S/H) how difficult it is to estimate shipping charges when you are trying to cover your butt across the entire U.S. It's hard! Sean is right that sometimes you make a little chump change and sometimes you eat some of it. It's a total wash.

I did recently have one issue with S/H on FAA. Paper prints. FAA recently lost a sale (thankfully I didn't :)) to Society 6 because they would not "combine" shipping for one of my buyers in Australia. I loaded the images to Society 6 for her and Society 6 did combine shipping for her. These were paper prints...where it costs ZERO extra to put 2 pieces of paper in a tube vs. 1.

Any reason for this?

Oh and I freight ship big orders all of the time on stretched canvas and find the expense not that great. I recently shipped 4 36x72 1.5 stretched canvas from me in FL to NV for under 500.00. When you average it out per painting it really isn't that bad. Less than the cost to get them stretched if I had rolled them in a tube. Freight isn't a big deal. It's the little pieces that are so dang costly to ship!

When someone pays 3500.00 for a painting and the shipping is 125.00 they do not scoff. But when they buy a 30.00 print and the S/H is 15.00 it just doesn't seem right to pay half what the item is worth for shipping. That is where people get ruffled.