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David Larsen

10 Years Ago

Lowering My Prices

I just lowered prices on my originals by 15%. I have not sold anything in the last few shows I've done. I feel bad doing it, but I do not think I have a choice in this economy. I might go another 15% if things don't start moving soon. Bummed.

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Les Palenik

10 Years Ago

Lowering prices for mass-consumer items may work (in short term), but I doubt it makes a difference when it comes to one-of-a-kind art prints.

 

J L Meadows

10 Years Ago

I'm wondering why you don't offer your work as prints here...

 

David Larsen

10 Years Ago

JL, I gave up on prints. I was not super happy with the print quality -- they'd print too dark -- and they were not selling anyway. I decided to focus my efforts on originals. I use my Artist Website as a catalog of originals instead of prints.

 

Les Palenik

10 Years Ago

As to the print copies being too dark:
Either, they were not scanned/photographed properly in the first place, or you could make another version (from a properly photographed images) and easily lighten them in Photoshop.


 

Harold Shull

10 Years Ago

Hiya David,

I have been doing the exact opposite as you...I have been raising my prices. Why is it when all around us the cost of living and prices on goods are going up but we artists are supposed to lower ours. Something is wrong with this picture David. Nah, I will continuer to raise my prices. As far as my originals are concerned, I will raise those prices because as far as I'm concerned if I never sell another one I don't care.

David by lowering the prices on your originals you are devaluating the value of them. If any of your customers purchased an original from you they would be very unhappy to hear this. Because by lowering the prices of your originals you are also lowering the value of the paintings they purchased from you.

 

David Larsen

10 Years Ago

Les, basically, the only way I could get the print quality I want is to do test prints of every painting in my catalog, dialing it in until it's perfect. I'm pretty picky. I told myself, if I were to do that, I'd want to do limited run, signed, prints. That way I have complete control over what my customer gets. I've given up on POD.

 

Les Palenik

10 Years Ago

Well, I can't see a problem in making a good copy.
It may not have the 3D appearance and texture of the original (even the colors may be slightly off), but a properly done reproduction print might work quite well.
You created the original, now you can create a second product from it.

Personally, I don't put value on limited editions, but that's another subject.

 

David Larsen

10 Years Ago

Hal, I had a couple of near misses (all with the same painting). Twice now, I came within inches of selling a painting and no dice right at the last second. I feel like if my price was in line with what they wanted, they would have pulled the trigger. I'm just realigning myself to what the market can bear.

 

David Larsen

10 Years Ago

Les, I think the keywords in your statement are "properly done." To do it properly, I'd have to front a bunch of money in test prints until I got it right. At this point I opt for no prints, rather than untested prints.

 

Deborah Smolinske

10 Years Ago

David, be careful about lowering your prices. There is a perception that inexpensively priced art, no matter how good it is, must somehow be cheap, a fake, paint by numbers, whatever. People who really want the art don't really care what it costs (within reason, of course). I used to think like you and was constantly tinkering with my prices, figuring if I could just find the right price point, my stuff would just fly out of my booth. Never happened.

Then I spent a lot of time learning how to sell, something I wasn't very good at. I developed a "patter" that emphasized the quality of the materials I use and the lengths I go to to get a good photograph. I learned how to approach people without doing a hard sell. And I also worked hard to find the right kind of show. A lot of "fine art" shows are anything but. You really need to be in the right marketplace to get the price you deserve.

I finally did a show last month that was the right show for me, a genuine fine art show, and I got a chance to really hone my little patter. And you know what? Best show I've ever done. My stuff really did fly out of the booth -- at prices higher than what I was charging all last summer. Not a single person gave me a funny look and said "You want $xxx for a pitchurr???"

Before you lower your prices, go read a couple of books on salesmanship and how to use the right buzzwords to let people know that your work has value and worth. And read some reviews of the shows you've been doing, maybe research doing different shows. The market is there for good artwork; you just have to work a little harder to find it.

 

Mary Ellen Anderson

10 Years Ago

David have you tried scanning your paintings instead of photographing them? I agree that digitalizing your paintings is a whole new medium to learn, but in this economy and especially for FAA and online markets then is essential.

 

David Larsen

10 Years Ago

Mary Ellen, if there was a good ROI on paying someone to scan my work, then maybe. However, I had print prices on my FAA listings for a year and half, and sold nothing. I'm afraid what would happen is I'd pay someone to scan my work and still would sell nothing, which is not a good ROI.

The reality of selling prints on FAA and that at best you sell onesies and twosies here and there; I never even did that. I don't see a good return spending money to dial those prints in to something I'd feel comfortable selling, whether is be by scanning images, doing test prints, (or more likely both).

I gave POD a good run. It never did anything for me, so I changed my strategy, and focused on originals. I'm still struggling with that obviously if I'm talking about lowering my prices, but I'm not ready to give up on that yet.

 

David Larsen

10 Years Ago

Deborah, I think Tucson is a weird market. There is not the money here like there is in say Scottsdale. I'm trying to find the right price for this market. Obviously, price is just one element to landing a sale. You've got to have the right marketing skills, personality, and so on. I have not found the right formula yet. I'm going to try the new price for a bit to see if it helps me crack the Tucson market. If that does not work, I'll try something else.

 

Roberto Gagliardi

10 Years Ago

We all need money,it is a fact,and in certain periods we might need more than usual..BUT....lowering the prices of one's work,is,in my modest opinion,a mistake.....people KNOW that cheap art and reproductions can be found easily in mass cheap shops...her in Australia we have shops like Red Dot or Things or The Reject shop and similar,that sell crap art from China and Asia cheap as dirt.....and it is better that my potential customers do not put me in that category.....so,I think that lowering the prices could be a wrong move,may be discounts can be offered on specials or quantity....that is my 5 cents...

 

David Larsen

10 Years Ago

I'm not trying to compete with cheep goods. Take the painting below, one of my more popular ones. I've lowered the price from $849 to $699. It still takes a chunk of cash to afford $699. $699 is not the price of junk. However, in cash strapped economy, that might make a difference to someone. At least that is what I'm hoping.

Photography Prints

 

Justin Green

10 Years Ago

Never undersell your artwork.
People that buy your work will not be happy if they bought a print or the original for say $500, then 3 months later, its on sale for $400.
Art is supposed to go up in value, not down.

 

Roy Erickson

10 Years Ago

Way back in the day when I had been painting and selling watercolors for about 5 years, things were slow. I was doing shows and winning awards, but sales were slow. One of my friends who was a true professional at that time, making a living on here watercolors, and I were doing a show and I was kind of glum about sales. He advice - you need to put a one in front of your prices - I was barely making $15 when one sold. I sold every image at that show and won two really nice purchase awards. At every show I did over the next two years, I would almost always sell out, even my large ones. Her philosophy - if you price your work cheap - people think your work is cheap.

 

JC Findley

10 Years Ago

I started out selling very little art. I lowered my pricing and sold very little art. For that matter, I sold even worse at that price.

This was when I still had a good day job and didn't really need to sell. One day, I decided that if I wasn't selling my art I might as well not be selling very expensive art and raised my prices to triple what I originally set in the first place. To my amazement, I started selling and selling well.

Take that for what it is worth. I can't really say what will work for you but can tell you what seemed to work for me. I will say this; you have outstanding work and IMO an original painting should sell for more than I could sell my photographic prints. I have sold prints for the price you now have on your originals.

 

Alexander Senin

10 Years Ago

I viewed your originals... They are great!
DO NOT CUT YOUR PRICES!

 

Alfred Ng

10 Years Ago

I don’t think pricing is the most important part if a work sold. Base on my own experience both as an artist and art buyer: it is a combination of the art, ’personality and the meaning behind the art. Of the three, an artist’s personally is the most important element of an art sold.
I just done a outdoor art show which has over 400 artists, in order to stood out among all those artists a likable artist likely sell better than others. I found the buyers brought my works because they like me and the stories behind the works. I was surprised after looking at my works and a conversation some even wanted to have a photo of me!

 

Mike Savad

10 Years Ago

lowering won't help you. raising them will mostly due to perception. i don't think the economy is to blame, but perhaps to the people your showing them too. if you keep lowering it, eventually you'll be paying people to take it.

i also suggest you start selling your work as prints again because not everyone wants or can afford the original.


---Mike Savad

 

Mike Savad

10 Years Ago

also let the viewer decide if it's too dark or not. but it does sound more like your screen is faultering and your releasing it that way. you'll have a harder time selling the original than a copy. and if your not selling the copy, your probably not advertising it to the right people. i can think of a number of places where your art would fit in.


---Mike Savad

 

Donna Proctor

10 Years Ago

Hi David -

Just another opinion here... speaking as a traditional painter, I agree with what Hal and Robert said...

You are an accomplished artist with great skill - I think lowering prices is not always the smartest of moves for a traditional painter in a turned-down economy. Lots of psychological thinking involved in buyers' minds... just saying.

--Donna Proctor

 

Mike Savad

10 Years Ago

what i can tell you is this - i increased my prices and actually increased my sales. once people like your work they advertise for you. but if your putting things here and thinking they will sell, it usually won't happen. for you, you need to advertise to the food and wine industry and friend people like that. those are the types who would go for your work.


---Mike Savad

 

Heather Applegate

10 Years Ago

David - just a thought - make your prices round numbers. Giving a price of $699 vs $700 makes it look like you're selling it in a department store. And for a 24" original looks cheap to me!
I know people on here selling originals smaller than that at over $1k... the problem is likely not the economy, it's that you need to find your buyers, your audience. Because your work is amazing.

 

Donna Proctor

10 Years Ago

Quote - "It's that you need to find your buyers, your audience. Because your work is amazing."

Well said, Heather!

 

Mike Savad

10 Years Ago

it also depends on your artshows? what kind of people were they? like if you can match your work with a fair that is meant for foodies. or set up in a convention hall for restaurant owners (not sure if that's possible), those are people who would want it most. it all depends who's looking at it.

---Mike Savad

 

Mary Ellen Anderson

10 Years Ago

David go buy a epson 500V scanner (under $200). It comes with photoshop elements and a stitching program called ICE. The learning curve is NOT bad at all. The cheapest I've heard of someone doing scans for you is $50 per painting (and it's worth that) but this is the way to go.

 

David Larsen

10 Years Ago

My target audience is the middle class, people who can afford to splurge once and a great while, but not by huge amounts. If I could get my work in front of higher income folks, I would, but those are not the people coming out to shows I show at.

There is a gallery here in Tucson that has similar types of work at a similar price that I'm looking into. If I were to place my work there at my previous price, I would be over priced for the gallery. By lowering my prices, I'm still at the high end, but more in line with what is shown there. Even if I do not end up in the gallery, I've been kind of using it as a guide to pricing my work, since it is similar quality.

As artists we often say our work is worth a premium price; anything lower is cheating ourselves. As a sales person, however, I have to price my work at what the market will bear.

When it comes to pricing my work, I have three prices in mind. There is the list price, which is what a gallery would charge, if they took a high commission. It is a set price for when I can not be there to negotiate. This is also the prices I have on my Artist Website.

There is my sale price, which is what I mark my prices to if I'm at a show with no commission, like an open Studio tour. This is when I print up my own price tags, and I am attending the show in person. That price is only good for the show.

Finally, there is my negotiated price, which is the bottom price I would let the piece go for if someone wants to haggle with me. I don't encourage this, but some people insist.

I guess there is one more price too. That is the family and very close personal friend price, but that is a different animal altogether.

I've figured all these out ahead of time so I do not get into a situation where I'm negotiating prices and I end up cheating myself.

 

Mike Savad

10 Years Ago

but it's not middle class - it's a certain type of person that would enjoy the theme of your art. anything can be for the middle class. if anything you want to target the rich, since they have money to spend on silly things like art. middle class spend it on clothes, food, and computer stuff. having more money won't make them buy it any better.

like if you had a puppy, you wouldn't sell it to a person that only likes cats, it doesn't matter if you give it away for free. you can't group up everyone to show your art too you have to show very specific people, those are the ones you want.

if you go to an artshow that has the same kind of work, wouldn't yours be overlooked? the market will bear a surprisingly high amount if you show it to the right person. you shouldn't have to haggle over a price, i would actually find that pretty rude. i would just kick that person out of my booth if i had one. this isn't a garage sale. but it depends where you list your stuff. if your in a swap meet people expect a certain price. an artshow on a street won't pay $1200 for anything. your lucky if you get $50 because most people don't carry that much cash or want to carry home such a huge image. which is another point, paint smaller things, this way you can do it faster and then sell it to people that have the space for it.

for now, i would start selling prints on here again because that still is money. and show your stuff to crowds interested in the theme, not just because they have money.


---Mike Savad

 

Loretta Luglio

10 Years Ago

I just received another inquiry of an original here on FAA and they offered exactly half of my asking price. This has been done several times and for this reason I inflate them so they can meet me half way and be happy. Every original painting I've sold online was a negotiated price from the buyer with one exception, an art consultant who didn't bat an eye. The last piece had already been sold at full price in a show. They all offer about half the asking price. I don't think lowering your price is a good precedent. Also, all originals sold are also offered as prints.

 

Harold Shull

10 Years Ago

David, my art prints are priced for the average middle class customers but my originals are priced for customers who have the money to spend. I will adjust my prices on giclee art prints but not on my originals. They are my love and my life's work and they are not open for bargaining. Sometimes I will act the fool to get customers to enter my tent but once inside, it's all business.

 

Dalton James

10 Years Ago

I just finished a show in Flagstaff,AZ over the 4th of July weekend and sold 6 original pieces. They were smaller pieces of course but nevertheless they sold. The thing I thought about after reading the posts here was the reaction to some of the prices I mentioned. It ranged from silence and a smile to "that's all...!?". Lately, I've been a bit torn on how to price my work. I don't work in only one medium and as far as my research goes they all say paintings are priced higher than any other mediums (oils more than acrylics). My other mediums are watercolor, colored pencil, gouache and ink.

In the process I hope I found a couple of collectors. They didn't purchase anything until late Sunday afternoon (last day of the show) and mentioned they had walked through the entire show and looked at all the offerings, went home and discussed what made the most impression on them and they came back and bought two pieces.

In pricing my work I may have been unconsciously thinking along the same lines as Loretta, price with a little bit of room for negotiation. Also same as Loretta all originals sold are offered as prints.

 

Roy Erickson

10 Years Ago

IF you get into the gallery - almost every one will not let you "sale" price your art at your studio - they really dislike being undercut - even when they aren't present - and it will only take one thoughtless customer to walk into that gallery and make a comment of "wow, you are asking that much - I bought one from him and only paid half that" - and you will be dropped faster than a hot desert rock.

 

Alfred Ng

10 Years Ago

Roy, you are right about the galleries do not like being undercut. Many galleries would not touch an artist if they sell on their own with less than the gallery price.. the price I sell on my own is the same it would at the galleries.

 

Mary Ellen Anderson

10 Years Ago

David, I agree with Harold. The giclee prints are a wonderful opportunity for painters to compete with photography prices in the decorator market, and open your art to the anyone can afford markets. I think there is also an artistic separation between your original and "commercial" art in doing prints. You gain the reputation of the original as fine art and the giclee is a art reproduction. In other words then your art was first created as "fine art" and then reproductions were made of it, as opposed to original work that is created for commercial reasons. It might be fiction that the artist has this separation but it is perceived that way. Although this distinction isn't relevant to the majority of FAA buyers it will be to fair markets, galleries, and artistic recognition organizations.

If you ever want other people to sell your art or represent you then NEVER undercut them. Your work is either saleable at a price that includes a seller/gallery commission or it doesn't. Even if you're not currently represented then you have to have established your marketability to be of interest to them. That means selling at prices that includes the profit (that you currently get) that they will get for representing you. They are taking a gamble and they are more interested in your current sales and prices then in your artistic talent... assuming they're legit (otherwise they are just interested in how deep your pockets are).

--mary ellen

 

Mary Ellen Anderson

10 Years Ago

Also David, you should experience the first time you sell a print and realize you don't have to paint something else if you want another sale.

 

David Larsen

10 Years Ago

Good to know when it comes to gallery pricing. I'll cross the bridge when I get there. As of right now, I'm not in a gallery, and my prices are where they are at. I'm going to try them out for a while and see where it takes me. If they don't work, I'll readjust.

When it comes to the gallery that I mentioned in the beginning of this thread, really, I'm using that as a price guide. It is similar style and quality of work. I assume they know the art market in Tucson (even though they are new, which means they may not, but I digress). I may or may not show with them, but their prices are what interests me. Up until now, I have not been able to compare my work to similar work in the same market.

 

David Larsen

10 Years Ago

I know some people think I should sell prints again. I tried that for a year and a half. It simply did not work for me. It works for some people, just not me. I just can't spend all my time trying to sell one or two prints a year for like 35 bucks a piece. I decided last December that I was off POD and that I'd spend 2013 focusing on selling originals. It was just a shift in focus. Part of that means dialing in my prices.

 

Pencil Paws

10 Years Ago

I am doing the reverse of you because I want to get into the prints. Obviously an original takes so long to produce, I would like to make more money from the same image. At a show I did recently I actually sold out of prints (it sounds good but I didn't have that many printed) but only sold one original. Some people can afford and want the original, others can't and are happy to have a print - play to all markets. It took no time to prepare my prints, a visit to the printers and then a visit to the framers to have them mounted. The show I did was an experiment because I had never tried prints before, now that is the exact route I want to go - get more money from one image. My problem with POD is that I don't really know how to prepare the drawing to put on the internet with good print quality but that is another story.



 

Marcio Faustino

10 Years Ago

David,

You can do like me, focus on selling originals (in my case traditional prints) and somewhere in your home page you can have a link, directing to your FAA prints, for those who like your work but only can afford prints. It would be just as extra little help like artists who sells postcards version of their works in their galleries or studios. Or calendars.

It is like finding coins on the ground. You are not looking for it and it will not help you to pay your shopping or your bills but you take it anyway.




Marcio Faustino
Marcio Faustino - Traditional Prints
See my prints in person - Germany - France - Switzerland
Are you an aspiring model?

 

Mike Savad

10 Years Ago

you weren't trying long enough to sell it as prints. especially if you weren't advertising at the same time. and selling it as prints doesn't require any other work and you could sell it. it's far more affordable that way. if anything instead of removing the prices you should have increased them. but advertising is the key. and it's a lot easier then standing around some show.

there is no dialing prices, it's all about who you show it off too. you have to know your crowd. like if you sell nothing but dogs in tutu's and pink and yellow flowers - you won't go over well at that motorcycle club. and if you have biker stuff and death metal related art, you won't go over well at the red hat society (because if either one of those two types of people do get something because they did like it, the other would shun them. it doesn't matter if they had tons of money or not. if you don't find the right market, then the price won't matter any. and denying a print here is just silly, not only do you lose a potential sale, but also all those keywords.


---Mike Savad

 

Loretta Luglio

10 Years Ago

I agree you should never undercut the galleries. I refer people to the gallery if the painting is displayed there. Some galleries have changed their attitude in recent years about artists having websites, etc. I deal with three galleries and am very fair with them. Well, two of them. The third one I am pulling out of as nothing is moving and I don't think they are promoting me or the other artists enough.

David - as long as you belong to FAA it does no harm to keep the prints for sale. As for your originals, if you are in a gallery you are forced to raise your price to cover their commission, right? Lowering your online prices is going to backfire as potential buyers of originals feel (no ideas why) they can negotiate. I ask the same as I would if it were in a gallery - say another 30% for commission. Then there is wiggle room.

If you are in step with artists in your area (of the same caliber work) I would not lower the price.

 

Ginny Schmidt

10 Years Ago

David it is your art and your choice how to price it and whether or not to offer prints on FAA. However, you would not have started this forum thread if you did not want to invite discussion, you would simply have just lowered your prices and left us out of it. Since you raised the subject however, and seem willing enough to listen and respond even when you disagree with others' opinions, I will add my two cents - or maybe it should be 5 cents.

You are good and you know it. Your work is excellent. Your prices could have been much higher to begin with. Rather than devaluing your work, why not offer a temporary discount? Make it seem more like a good opportunity than a chance to pick up something that is not as good as it thought it was. You may feel you know your market, and I wish you luck in whatever you decide, but people who help nonprofit organizations with fund raising know that when you don't ask for enough $$ you invite rejection and when you ask for more, you inflate people's ideas of what they think THEY are worth and it flatters them.

As far as blocking print sales and using FAA simply to warehouse and catalog your originals, in my opinion is just dumb, pardon my language. You may be very solicitous of your creations, not wanting them to suffer inexpert handling - but who are you to decide whether a potential buyer does not deserve the opportunity to make up his own mind about print quality. I'm sorry, but that seems like cutting off your nose to spite your face. Do you just not want inferior copies of your painted originals cluttering up the world? Do you have no respect for a potential buyer who would "settle" for a print because it was more affordable? That is insulting.

If your logic in blocking the print function as well as in lowering the price on your original work is the economy and the fact that you have not sold something for a while, or that you went for a long time on FAA with no bites - everybody does not sell like clockwork here. Maybe a few do and, yes, maybe you ARE better than they are, but a sale once in a blue moon is better than not even offering people the opportunity. Buyers are funny. They have minds of their own and it is entirely up to them when they will let go of their money. But they can't do it if the door is closed.

All I'm saying is you cannot decide how or when something will sell, and if people want something they will find a way. Having prints of your work out in the world could very well inspire someone to want one of your originals - knowing, of course, that the colors and the detail will be even more glorious in person than in a printed interpretation of the original. And what everyone else here is saying, do not devalue yourself. You are worth more, so stand up to it.

 

Abbie Shores

10 Years Ago

I have few sales and have put my prices up.

If people wish to purchase then great but I refuse to take less than my time is worth...just like in any other day job

 

Genevieve Esson

10 Years Ago

I just started raising my prices on my artwork. People kept telling me I was underselling myself & devaluing my art. I did not feel good about my low prices, so I raised them. If people like my artwork they will buy it.

 

Robert Frank Gabriel

10 Years Ago

I think we should charge people for just viewing our art here on FAA....One dollar a view sounds about right for me with no kick back to FAA (except when an image is purchased).

 

Phyllis Beiser

10 Years Ago

David, I am a fan of your work and what I would tell you is to not sell yourself short!!! A few years ago, between the hurricaines and the B.P oil spill, every artist that I know suffered greatly. Galleries sold few if any of anyones work. I as many others reduced my prices for those years. Now I am paying dearly for that. As I keep trying to slowly move the price back up, one of the galleries that sells my work often, told me that the reason that he has not sold any of my work in several months is because people are being scared by my prices! I am talking a 30x24 oil painting @ $450.00!!!! I am going to have to bite the bullet and just raise them regardless. So you see, if you do reduce your prices, you may be cutting your own throat so to speak! Be careful. I have noticed that just about all artist in my area have lowered their prices so in reality, I had no choice and did not hurt anyone else, just myself! On top of the lowered prices, I continue to get calls from the galleries telling me that a customer wants to know if I will come down a little on the price!!! I tell them to ask that customer if they will come work for me for a few weeks at less than minimum wage.......... They are never the ones to purchase art in the first place so what the heck.... :0 Just be warned that if you do this, you will ultimately be the one to pay!

 

Judy Kay

10 Years Ago

My two cents: I understand completely your frustration. I was considering doing the same..(Regarding offering prints).If you still decide on selling just originals, in your description of each artwork you could add that if a buyer is interested in purchasing a print to email you the size and you will make it available. You could add that caption in the bio as well.Intead of POD Print on Demand...Photography on Demand! ha!
..Also, you may considering joining a site like Daily Painters. That site only offers original paintings for sale, so you are not in competition with the POD and photography images.

 

Gina Hyde

10 Years Ago

People love cheap art.. unfortunatly most of art people that I have talked to, that sold their art cheaply to alot of people found out the buyers go and are resell the art. They never cut prices again. =[ btw your art is awesome =)

 

Jenny Armitage

10 Years Ago

Dave you do fantastic work and you know I am a fan. If your prices were overly high, or even what your paintings are actually worth you might consider lowering them. I don't think taking the prices down 15% will matter much in terms of sales. You will just make a little less when the paintings sell.

 

MM Anderson

10 Years Ago

I lowered my print prices here a few months ago and it hasn't brought me any sales so I am thinking about putting them back up. Might as well not sell at a higher price as not sell at the lower one. I have never tried to sell my originals. I'm a really bad salesperson so I don't think I could do it.

 

Mary Ellen Anderson

10 Years Ago

David, truly you are a very accomplished artists and you should be getting way higher prices on your originals. I came back to art just after the first of this year, and have sold many prints (all but 1 off FAA). The only print I've sold on FAA was +$600. True FAA keeps half but I'm selling my prints in the price range that you are selling originals. Wouldn't you much rather sell a print at these low prices then your babies (the originals)?

I don't understand why you wouldn't sell the prints? The cheap scanning system I use works. I've seen the prints because I hang in my gallery and take them to fairs to sell them. I consider digitizing my work as a new medium and I'm learning, but you can get good reproductions made cheaply. The way out of the scramble to cut prices or commercialize your art starts in not having to do that to generate income. Simply having prints available that can sell over and over if popular buffers you from being artistically locked into it.

You truly have nothing to lose selling prints here. There is a 30 day return and if the buyer is happy then what is your issue? Concentrating on marketing your originals could only help print sales too, and not promoting prints probably won't hurt original sells. It really is a shame with all the blogging and WIP demos etc. that I know you've been doing that your prints weren't available.

David, the artistic quality is there in your work, you're just not marketing it correctly. You need to channel any desperation and panic into marketing for awhile; and especially leveraging your promotion efforts. Last week was the first time this year I've had time to picked up a paintbrush. Even though I've come back to paint, I need to validate those efforts to myself but mostly to the people in my life that are sacrificing my attention to them. Part of that validation is selling but I soon discovered that the sheer market requirements in pricing, volume of work needed to penetrate the market, and time, were going to make it impossible for me alone to paint my way into the market and keep artistic integrity. Today then the competition is every master in history and most art dealers are making more money off artists then for artists. You just have to deal with this, but as an economist and can tell you that you can't compete in the supply and demand game on originals alone (at least if you're currently unknown). Prints are the logical first step.

 

David Larsen

10 Years Ago

This conversation seems to have taken a turn about people wishing to discuss my lack of print pricing. I understand people's concerns. It was just a business decision on my part to abandon that. I'm going to attempt to bring this thread more toward originals again.

I think the reason why I target the middle class for my originals is because that is who is coming to art shows and galleries in Tucson. Middle class is king in Tucson. It is a middle class town. The only way to get my art in front of the more affluent -- people with money -- is to look beyond Tucson. I would have to do shows in Scottsdale, where the money is in Arizona. That is about 100 miles from me, near Phoenix.

I guess I could look at galleries there. I understand it is hard to get into those galleries, though. Scottsdale is a hard nut to crack. Other artists who live there say I would do well if I could get in, saying that my work is kind of what they are looking for. The only thing that would hold me back is that I do not do southwest art, a common theme for artwork there.

Painting is not my day job, so if I were to look at other markets, it would have to be a weekend gig. I am limited in my time off. Painting is easy to do in my off time, when I have an hour here or there. Doing shows is much harder because of the time commitment.

Along those lines, I had an artist friend who did a show at a very prestigious gallery here in Tucson called DeGrazia Gallery in the Sun. It was a week long show, and she was expected to be there from open to close every day. I think I could do well in a show like that, except for the time commitment. That is much harder when you pay the bills with your day job.

I had to pass on another show, a tent show, because it was Friday, Saturday, Sunday. I could do Saturday and Sunday, but not Friday.

 

Mary Ellen Anderson

10 Years Ago

Well David, I'm not sure what you want us to say. It sounds pretty unanimous that cutting prices will not help sales and that you should have prints available because most people at fairs, FAA, middle-class don't care if it's an painting or not. Or whether you're a known name or not. The collector's needs (the guy that cares if its a painting or a photograph) is much rarer (% of buyers) then it use to be. The decorator, souvenir, gift, etc. market will only support a certain price range. I could personally not be profitable on just originals alone at these venues. I can neither paint cheaply enough or fast enough to do this.And as you have said, getting into galleries and shows may not be a viable option.

All of us want to paint for the collector market but be purchased like it's wall decor. That requires 2 different products for 2 different markets. Unless you can paint as fast and cheaply as a printer then you're just chasing your tail. I've started a hybrid gallery funded on prints where our goal is to pay for every artists costs of being an artists. Goal is to fund the cost of selling our originals with revenue from prints. That means that if you do sell an original it's all gravy. They never have to sell a single original to be successful artists.

I know you want to just talk about selling originals but the things you've been doing blogging, demos, fairs, etc. are all exactly right or you'd never sell, but by not offering prints then you are just ignoring the majority of your markets needs. You say it was just a business decision you made to quite POD, but it's a costly decision and is leading you to undercut your value. I really do think this course is disastrous.

Diversify David and offer both products: prints and originals. Take prints and originals to your fairs. Sell the prints at the FAA successful prices and use a $ per inch or other $ for labor/skill on your originals. The products have different buyers. Can you make collector art cheap enough that a decorator will buy? Maybe, but probably not profitably. You have to sell to the decorator differently then you sell to a collector (I recently wrote a blog about wanting your art to match sofa cushions). Learning how that's done will take clear understanding of the differences between them. You can't change a markets (buyers) needs or parameters (price range, qty of, etc), you can only offer products that meet them.

 

JC Findley

10 Years Ago

Back when I had money I bought couches to match the art.

Shame everyone doesn't do that.

 

Alfred Ng

10 Years Ago

David,
After reading your last post, I realized your problems is not about lowering your prices. it is more about time commitment.
Being an artist,a long term commitment is a must, not only time to create art also time to market and promote yourself which is more than a full time job. Every time you started a thread I would check on your galleries but found the same paintings..
My advise would be not to waste your valuable time for those weekend shows but spent your weekends painting as your part time job.Enter as many local and national juries shows to build your name and promote your paintings.once you got accepted into more shows it will help you when submitting to galleries later on..

 

Mike Savad

10 Years Ago

i don't see how it's a business decision by removing the ability to have a copy of something. selling art has always been hard. people have been struggling for a long time selling originals, then one day POD's came out and people can now sell. i'm betting if i stood in the hot sun all day i wouldn't sell a thing, because my stuff only works well in volume where people can take the time to get something. there's almost no point in being here if your not set up to sell prints here. by placing it here and advertising a few a day, you can start selling, and it doesn't take that much work, and you can sell elsewhere or do whatever you do. removing that ability just hurts you. and so what if it doesn't sell, how does it hurt having it here?

---Mike Savad

 

Gary Whitton

10 Years Ago

Here's an article on pricing that caught my eye a long time ago. What caught my eye was the defining of different markets, and how your prices can effect which art buying type is interested in your products.

http://www.danheller.com/biz-prints.html

And I agree with Mike, being so picky about how this and that prints, or how the framing looks, etc to the point you have to baby each print that goes out the door, and thus give up making prints all together because it becomes a big hassle, is like giving up a good paying job because you don't like something trivial about your boss, the office environment, etc. If you really want to make a living at this, which you may not, you have get past your number one road block, which is probably yourself. And I say that not in a personal sense, as it afflicts myself and many others that suck at marketing and selling.

 

David Larsen

10 Years Ago

This conversation always comes back to prints for some reason. People don't want to give it up. Really, this should be my last word on the subject:

I gave it a go, for a year and a half! I really did! I sold nothing, nada, zilch, nil, the big goose egg! It is not like I did not promote it! I did! It is a dead end for me! POD and I did not work!

POD works for some people! I get it! It did not work for me! I was not totally happy with the product, and I DID NOT SELL ANYTHING! Something had to change! I'm done with POD! I tried it! It did not work!

I HAD to change my tactics! The tactics I chose were to focus on originals, and do more promotion locally! Do local shows! Do juried shows! Get people in front of my art! Talk to people! See them face to face! That is what I'm doing this year! In fact, I dropped off an original today to see if I can get into a juried show!

I'm not trying to convince people not to do POD! I'm trying to convince you that IT DID NOT WORK FOR ME!

Now, I'm stepping off my soap box! Let's discuss pricing and tactics to sell originals.

---

Alfred, I agree, time is an issue. There is only so much time in the day. My library of originals on my Artist Website grows very modestly. I make about 10 paintings a year.

I do two Open Studio shows a year. I've been in one juried show this year. I just entered into another show today (we'll see if I get accepted by the jury). I had to pass on one show because I could not get Friday off from my day job. I've been talking to a gallery. That is likely to round out my year.

Doing all that and painting too takes up most of my free time, which is very precious because I work full time on top of it.

 

I noticed that I sold more when I raised my prices. In art sometimes people see the low price as a turn off(odd way of thinking). I did look at some of your work and it seems that you need people to see your work. The few keywords does not help and the descriptions are not enough for the buyer to connect or for the images to be found by search engines. Good luck on what ever you decide to do and hope it increases your sales

 

Mike Savad

10 Years Ago

of course it does, this is a print on demand site.

a year and a half with someone who doesn't have a name yet online is like having your work up for a day and a half, especially if you don't advertise it. so it didn't work - you pulled it? it's not the expensive to be here, and your not making sales anyway, why pull it?

the selling of prints leads to sales to the originals. that's often how it works. but how is selling the originals working out for you?

we are talking here because you can't sell the originals either.

here is the advantage to selling prints - you cover many people over the entire world. where as a local show - a few people see it. you have to go with the numbers. many people won't ask about the original - if they can find it. if you have limited notes and words, and don't advertise it, you won't sell it here either. selling art was never easy, thinking you were going to make a landslide in sales in that amount of time and not advertise them - well that just doesn't work well.


---Mike Savad

 

Dianne Connolly

10 Years Ago

I have been only raising my prices this year. I did the whole lower my price thing for 2 or 3 years when the recession hit us here but sold next to nothing. Funnily enough, this year thinks have picked up immensely and I go by the adage now, 'if you Don't Ask then you Don't Get', it's that simple.

 

Alfred Ng

10 Years Ago

David, idea for you: know any teenager? either your own or nieces, nephews? buy them a scanner and let them run your FAA account for you.and don't come back to the discussion page until you sold the first print or original

 

Jenny Armitage

10 Years Ago

David,

I understand about the free time issue. I am a full time mother and wife and it limits my art time. Today due to unfortunate coincidences: I got our hot water heater replaced; got the washing machine fixed; set up my booth at a fair, grocery shopped for a week; ran and folded a load of laundry; and made dinner plus a dinner for during the fair. I don't do all that many art fairs fairs a year for just this reason.

But, while I tried lowering prices, it didn't increase original sales. Actually upping the price for originals did increase sales. People are odd. And no Salem, Oregon is not an upper end market---to the contrary we've felt the great recession rather hard here.

I do have a suggestion about printing here at FAA. Take one of your paintings. Make it look like it should on your monitor. Paste it onto about one eighth of an 11 x 14 image. Then change the brightness of the monitor make it look good at that brightness paste it to the 11 x 14 file. Repeat until you have eight images on one file. Make sure you label each change so you can reproduce it. Upload the multi-image file in a private gallery 0n FAA. Order a print. Take the best looking image and set your monitor to that image's setting. Alter all your files to match thatb monitor setting. I haven't done that on FAA, but I have done it with a local printer. Everything done that way looks great.

 

David Larsen

10 Years Ago

Gallery Three, many people on this thread have mentioned raising prices to sell more. It seems a little counterintuitive to me, but so many people have said it, I might look into it. I'm going to try my new prices for the next two shows, and then I'll readjust again.

Dianne, I'm glad things are picking up for you. I hope it does for me too. The recession hit everyone hard.

Jenny, homeownership can sometimes be overrated LOL! My wife informed me today that our water bill quadrupled this month. That means this weekend I have to dig up another water leak in the yard in triple digit heat, instead of paint.

 

Mike Savad

10 Years Ago

see you can't worry about the economy, because if people don't have a job, they are not buying art or any other luxury. your targeting those with money, so raising your prices is a good thing. but if your only doing shows, and most of your work is 30" or tall, most people are not going to carry this thing around with them, it might not fit in the car, and they may not be able to visualize the huge thing on their walls. many don't have the space for a large thing like that. you have have smaller things - something that can fit in a shopping bag.

then in your booth you can tell people you also sell prints of different sizes if they don't want to buy an original, and you have other originals in the store so they can take their time. you set up cards to tell them this. and this is another way you sell things. since it's no extra work for you i still don't see why your so against the idea of selling prints. forget about your decision, you won't know until you try. and not selling them you don't know if they won't sell if you don't keep them there longer.

like right now there are a number of people who don't have jobs, yet i raised my prices and have been selling more. i'm sure there is a tipping point which is why i inch slowly up when i raise things. not everyone can afford these things. but i raise them because i work hard and it's time consuming and it's my salary. 1 out of 50 people will complain about a price... and oh well.

---Mike Savad

 

Gina Hyde

10 Years Ago

I agree with Mike people complain ether way

 

Bradford Martin

10 Years Ago

Whether or not you sell prints on a POD site or not, selling prints and licensing your work is part of the revenue stream for artists. If you don't make reproduction quality scan or photographs of your work and are successful in selling originals you will end up with your work scattered all over and you will lose all residual income from that work, which is important for any artist of any type.

The idea that people that are cash strapped are going to buy your work if you reduce the prices is absolutely false. Cash strapped people buy prints. Rich people but originals, And the rich are getting richer. Lowering prices will not get you more noticed by them. Raising prices might.

 

Mike Savad

10 Years Ago

also if your images are printing dark, it's because they are dark. some of them i would brighten almost 20%.

---Mike Savad

 

Gary Whitton

10 Years Ago

David,

Frankly you give up way to easily. And you have a bit of a high expectation for POD working in such a short time with only 35 things for visitors to choose from. I have been at this game for nearly 4 years, and have over a thousand images for sell at various sites. Does it get any easier with that many? Somewhat, but I am not making a killing. Figure I need alot more before I can make a real go of it, especially without really pushing the marketing.

And the reason I push prints, has nothing to do with POD. Prints of paintings were around long before the Internet, to solve a very basic reality of market demand, and artist survival. Only one person can own an original, but an infinite number can own a copy. And there are far more people out there that want a copy of a painting, who for practical reasons can't own the original (ie because its someone else's property), or can't afford the cost of the original.

Take a marketing lesson from Thomas Kinkaid on this one. There are books, postcards, prints, and who knows what else of his stuff. Thousands if not millions own a piece of his vision. That would never happened if all he ever did was sell his originals to a handful of rich people that could afford a one of a kind. And Thomas' heirs would be poorer for it.

And I would personally never be a painter if I didn't have the ability to maximize my profit from each painting created. Far more time goes into the average painting then goes into a photograph. And there is a lot more risk if you don't produce something people want.

Wouldn't be worth it to me if I could only sale it to one person, especially when I have to go through the effort of finding the one person that will spend enough money on it for me to recoup all the time and expense that went into its creation.

 

Genevieve Esson

10 Years Ago

Okay, Iiterally speaking I am raising this discussion to the top of the forum! ;) lol I need some
advice. I am currently haggling with a customer about purchasing one of my new paintings,
"Fler De Lis Mermaid", acrylic on stretched canvas, 8.5 x 11 inches. My asking price
$150.00. The buyer wants to purchase it for $100.00 I had originally sent him back an
email saying, $125.00. I did not hear back from him, waited two weeks & just sent him
an email asking if he was still interested. He shot me back an email said Yes, but
can only afford to pay $100.00. I need money. What should I do? See the link below:
http://fineartamerica.com/featured/fleur-de-lis-mermaid-genevieve-esson.html
Art Prints

Thanks! ~Geneiveve

 

Mike Savad

10 Years Ago

if you really need the money then sell it to him if you think its worth it. but underselling yourself just because some guy wants to haggle the money from you - if they do that each time you'll lose. maybe for this one you let it go for that price, then raise your prices so at least if they haggle something at $250, and get it for $200 - they think they've won something.


---Mike Savad

 

Dan Turner

10 Years Ago

Genevieve -- you say "I can see you like the painting and I want you to have it. Here's what I will do. This painting is $150. For that price I'll send you the painting AND I'll also send you a signed artist's certificate for $50, which you may use toward purchase of any of my other paintings. I'll make it good for six months. Does that work for you?"

Dan Turner
Dan Turner Fine Art
Dan Turner's Seven Keys to Selling Art Online
To Enjoy Dan Turner's Pinterest Boards, Click Here

 

Genevieve Esson

10 Years Ago

Thank you so much Mike and Dan for your advice!

@Mike: i don't want to undersell myself, you're right. Let me think this one over. =) I actually did raise the prices on my paintings before the customer saw this, so I may just go for the $100.00. I do need money right now too.

@Dan: I like your selling tool! Very good advice!!! I will think this one over also. I just might do this. Lots of things to think about here! =)

Thank you so much gentlemen for your time and attention. It is greatly appreciated!!! =)

~Genevieve

 

David Larsen

10 Years Ago

Gary, I will never have thousands of images to sell. This year I have 35. Next year I will have 45. The following year 55. A photographer can take 500 photos during an outing. I am lucky if I can create one painting. In fact, I will be lucky if I create 500 paintings in my entire lifetime. A good painting can take weeks or months to create, for me at least. Out of the 10 paintings I create in a year, maybe one or two will be spectacular, maybe three or four will be decent, and the rest will be meh. That is my reality as an artist.

 

Mike Savad

10 Years Ago

if you make them large and detailed then it will take a while. if you make them smaller, it should be faster. also don't assume that just because a photographer takes a lot that we edit a lot, or that we edit really fast. it might take me a few hours to a day to do one. if you didn't make 30" paintings and made the same thing at a 12x16 - how long would that take? but even if it is slow, that's why you offer your art in other forms. as long as the customer likes it - who cares if you think it looks dark, that might be the reason they bought it.


---Mike Savad

 

This discussion is closed.