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congrats on this beautiful image ...maybe it is just being in the right place at the right time ...

those tv contest things are spam here, there is a thread for that already.

---Mike Savad

hi fran thanks for the image choice if i figure out any good ideas will let you know ...http://fineartamerica.com/contests/national-tv-photo-contest-2.html?tab=vote&artworkid=6552086 best wishes with your gallery .

Hi Tom, thanks! My image in the example above has been posted for some time. I hope you don't mind me using your image to show how the idea I mentioned might be done.

hi fran... the best time to post in my mind sunday at 10:00am just a theory . also key words added to this image ...nature,clouds,sky,raw,raw steel,curves,shadows,unique,abstract realism

it's either a glitch, a catch up of the times we didn't get hits, or some very popular blog is doing something with an image or two.


---Mike Savad

Yeah, and Pinterest ran that image up pretty quickly, and is even the reason I caved and joined myself, but thousands in a day I have never seen but heard stumble used to be able to do that back in the day.

"Now, on the flip side, I have an image that is getting a few hundred views an hour right now and have no idea why.... It has some 2500 since about mid morning

Does stumble upon still have that kind of pull or is there a new kid on the net?"

The images I have that get large numbers of views have been pinned on Pinterest. Nothing like 2500 in one day, though...

Also if I am not mistaken a good time to post to Twitter is between 2:30 to 3:30 maybe a tad later. I can understand the early morning as most are getting ready for the day and near the end they are getting ready to go home.

oh i see, fire ranger. the search doesn't know what a phrase is unless it's a phrase.


---Mike Savad

Ranger covers many things, There are Texas Rangers, there are forest and park rangers, Attested from 1660s in sense of "man (often mounted) who polices an area." which covers Savads.

Army Ranger would be the word used to search for mine though.

i don't think i have any rangers, weird, i have to try that now.

it's nice to know that i beat others in words i don't even have.

---Mike Savad

Now, on the flip side, I have an image that is getting a few hundred views an hour right now and have no idea why.... It has some 2500 since about mid morning

Does stumble upon still have that kind of pull or is there a new kid on the net?

JC - Logically, to me anyway, I put in the word "ranger" to search. Your image does come up but not until after a great many of Mike Savad's images that neither have the word 'Ranger' in the keywords or description or that fit that word. I just really don't understand some of the search things and don't bother trying.

Are you saying then it doesn't matter because your image would come up on a 'relevant' search regardless of your "Seller" ranking?

I like to go throught the Recently Added page once in a while... it's fun to see what is being uploaded.

Yes ma'am....

JC,

So you're saying that your "strategy" has nothing to do with when you upload, but everything to do with what you upload? Where have I heard that before? Was it Abilene? ;-)

There are many things that FAA has that may not be used all that often. Like sorting a search by most comments. I am not privy to that info and who knows, maybe potential clients use that, but they probably do use "recently added" to sort images at times.

Now, while it is true that I sell well and the search is friendly to me, I used this image as an example because that doesn't matter at all. Even if I joined the site yesterday, that image would still be somewhere on the first four pages of the most relevant search.

Doesn't FAA track their pages? They must know if people use that tool.

@JC - interesting to know but then you're way up in the top sellers group so your work is highly visible.

I use the 'Todays Images' to see what's being put out there and to try to find work I like and comment on. I have seen that it matters to our rankings to visits/comments etc. from others and about the only way to achieve that is to comment to others. It's very disheartening to have to try to market ourselves to an invisible audience. I know, I know, we have to market outside of FAA and I do, but I think the majority of us will remain in the 75% rear-end. =)

Lucky for me, I like my own work and keep posting anyways, audience or not. It's fun!

I doubt many people, well at least buyers, even look at he recently added page.

I do get more artist hits when uploading during the waking hours, but they don't generally buy.

What if I wait to upload it for better visibility, and someone comes looking before I do, then I have no chance for that sale. I want the art up and indexed by the search as quickly as possible once I have it ready.

Example: I have no idea what time I uploaded it but it got zero initial views. It got all of two in the next week. It sold on the second view. I could generate all sorts of views by entering it into contests, and promoting it on FB and Tweeting it and and and.... BUT the reality is, those views would not mean sales unless I could actually tap the market for this image. It isn't generally artists and honestly, there just isn't much to cover this market on FAA, so I just don't care about the view count or getting it up.

Ah, yes Mike, that is true. It's all about the sales in the search algorithum. I know there is other criteria as has been said in the forum...perhaps sales is at the number one position in that and no matter what I keyword, title, descript, if there are no sales then I will always be in the backend of the search. Thanks everyone for your input!

Copyright does not protect names, titles, slogans, or short phrases.

But those things CAN be protected by trademark.

However, unlike copyright protection, which is granted the minute your work is created, trademarks aren’t handed out so freely. In fact, if the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office doesn’t consider your title (or brand) a distinctive mark that is indisputably distinguishable from others, you will not be granted trademark protection. This is why you see so many works of art and books with the same—or very similar—titles. Many of the terms are considered too generic or arbitrary to warrant protection.

Dan Turner
Dan Turner Fine Art
Dan Turner's Seven Keys to Selling Art Online
To Enjoy Dan Turner's Pinterest Boards, Click Here

if i were to find my name on someone elses keywords and they aren't related to the family i would contact support to get rid of those words. as it is i still see people using words like ebay or things like that. and it doesn't help in the long run because google knows ebay has nothing to do with this site.

but also because of how this site is set up, even if you were to title your things the same titles and such, because the sellers are at the top, they would be seen before yours. you would still be in the back


---Mike Savad

It "feels" unethical to PURPOSEFULLY title any of my image the same as someone else's and try to piggyback on their success. If I coincidently name my image the same as someone's as I'm sure I have then I wouldn't feel guilty. But I wondered about purposefully naming and tagging an image that is currently in the top features. If I had an image that was very similar to one of Mike's images that sells a lot - it seems wrong to me to copy his title and keywords and try to get his image views and possible buyers. I personally wouldn't do that, but I think there's nothing to keep someone from doing that or having done it.

Thanks for all the useful ideas! I had been wondering about these questions, since my art work has been viewed by people in Guatemala, India, and China as well as in the U.S., where I make it. I would think that people could be looking at your work at any hour of the day.

Do not use Marilyn Monroe in some like it hot or you will likely get it removed by Marilyn Monroe's estate if the image IS Marilyn Monroe in Some Like It Hot

Do not add your title to your keywords if the words in the title do not absolutely correlate to your image

'Feeling blue' on a picture of an orange is not a good keyword

the timing doesn't matter because most don't buy things as soon as they see things. most of my sales are about 3 weeks since i uploaded them, usually at the earliest.

if people type - Whitney Houston or gangnam style - the expect to see those things. and if it's not it's spam. and if it is, it's probably a copyright infringement.

the best way to sell is to advertise to people that may be the most interested in whatever it is your trying to push. tags are important because they help people find your things, but don't rely on them. descriptions help the viewer as do the titles, google likes them too. i've been here 2 years and never once did i look at the today's uploads. i never saw the point honestly.

facebook is a pain to use because the only way you can get sales there is to have lots of friends. they have lots too. and the more there are the harder it will be to find your ad or discussion. unless you can find a clever and funny description for a duckling or a dog with cake around it's mouth - it will probably be hard to wrangle up people.

and the people that find you (or me in this case), are people who like the work, like looking at it - but not buy it.


---Mike Savad

As long as the key word is related to your image, you're good. Tag spam will get your tags deleted. But titles are your decision alone. Be sure and put them in the key words, along with your name. A fine art abstract named "Marilyn Monroe in Some Like It Hot" is a legit title.

Dan Turner
Dan Turner Fine Art
Dan Turner's Seven Keys to Selling Art Online
To Enjoy Dan Turner's Pinterest Boards, Click Here

Right now, my image is of a different title and doesn't come up. Would this be a strategy that might work? What if I put that title in my keywords as you say Dan?

Thought provoking Dan!

Let's say I am a buyer and I remember seeing a photo I liked. I can remember the title but not the artist. So I put in the search the title. Let's say I search for someone's image that right now is on the front page and will be getting lots of views. I'll use Tom Druin as my example because his image is one I could rename one of mine to.

By Tom Druin


So if I rename, or title my image to 'Raw Steel' could I hone in on his viewers?
My image

"the search doesn't see titles"

It does if you put your title in the key words section.

"Have you or would you title one of your images the same as one that sells a lot?"

I haven't, but ouuuu let's do it. No rules against it. However, if you're going to play the search engine game, you don't have to guess what the top global searches are. Here's what you should have named your art in 2012:

Whitney Houston
Gangnam Style
Hurricane Sandy
iPad 3
Diablo 3
Kate Middleton
Olympics 2012
Amanda Todd
Michael Clarke Duncan
BBB12

Check Google to see what's hot this year and name your art that.

Is that smart marketing or dumb marketing? Could it even be considered marketing? Does it clash with your vision for your art, and you as an artist, or is it just perfect?

Dan Turner
Dan Turner Fine Art
Dan Turner's Seven Keys to Selling Art Online
To Enjoy Dan Turner's Pinterest Boards, Click Here

I don't think upload timing has anything to do with sales. Well, at least not my portfolio, lol. I sold an image yesterday that I uploaded in Sept. 2011. And it was the first sale for that image. I think the fastest an image sold for me after uploading was a week. I just upload whenever I have something to upload. And, as Craig said, keep plugging away...

That's interesting! Maybe past the Monday Tusday catch up at work, and before the downslide to the weekend?

Does anyone pay attention to the 'Today's Images'? Doesn't seem like a good move on FAA's part to have that set up if no one looks at it...?

I heard a radio report that said the best time to upload something to Facebook is on a Wednesday around noon. Not sure if that's an indicator of activity on other sites.

Thanks Craig and welcome! Yes, I have seen that this is quite a friendly place. I like your images btw. I grew up in S.D.~ many moons ago.

There are people here believe it or not that are willing to share information.

Not yet! I am new but slowly accepting the fact that this is like a journey in a sense. There are so many great artist out there that it's unreal. Not even the best artist on here have it on lock down because of the different styles etc. I think we kind of know when we browse around which pieces we would personally buy if we were non-sellers. If I came to this site to buy something I think I would look around a while and most likely change my mind more than a few times. Just keep plugging away is my motto and think of this more as an experience of meeting people, learning new tecniques, and a goal to put together the best gallery possible. Not sure if more images just for the sake of more images will help even though I am surprised personally of what some people will buy. Good Luck! Or should I not say luck?

Yes, the FAA main front page. LOL, sharing of information would be a poor strategy I suppose. Good to know that you haven't a specific strategy for upload timeline or one that works =)

if we had a true strategy that worked, i don't think we would really say anything. because that would be a poor strategy.

the place is world wide so i don't think there is a particular time, more so, the time you send your ad may also have impact. i don't think anyone but bored people look at the today's images because it's a random hodge podge. people usually have idea what they want and do a search for it. unless they came here on someone elses invite like a tweet.

the search doesn't see titles. the title doesn't sell the image, the image sells the image. and calling it the same thing won't help you much. and if it's really obvious they would call you the fake. if it happens to line up then it does. it's bound to happen. i tend to repeat mine a lot because i thought i did something new.

by homepage - do you mean chosen as a feature on the main front page? or something else?


---Mike Savad