B 17 Contrails

Congratulations on your sale of this wonderful artwork! F/L

Congrats!!........ A Beautiful Blessing.

Did you read my explanation of why my name "accidentally" appeared under Artist? I assume you did and simply reject that. Even so, my original description made it clear that I was not the photographer. How could I possibly inherit my own images! And I do not need any lessons on research or ethics from you. I have tried to be understanding about your concerns because you clearly are emotional about this issue. Had you simply stated the facts as you know them, rather than sermonizing, we would not be spending all this time on a topic we largely agree on: They were brave men and should be remembered for their sacrifices.

I am not related to Jerry Cole. I am also a photographer. However, I choose to sell images that I, myself, created. It wouldn't have taken much work to find the original photo and research where it was taken and who took it. In less than 30 minutes, with the help of people like Adam and other Internet resources, I had the answers. It was not taken in the Pacific as Adam stated. My original post was not an attack - but an effort to let you know that someone risked their life to take a photo you were selling under your own name. Knowing that you did not take the photograph - you should have made sure that was clear from the beginning. That is why I instinctively questioned your motives. I also knew that the description of the image was incorrect and still is. At least now you have credited Jerry Cole. It's a matter of ethics with me, I guess. I would never want to profit from someone else's work - public domain or not - especially a photo taken in battle conditions where men were risking their lives. My grandfather, father and brother are all veterans and fought in WWI, WWII, Korea and Desert Storm. That is why I wanted Jerry Cole, also a war veteran, to be credited. You have done that.

I insisted on nothing! And I am seriously failing to understand why you keep misreading my words or ascribing motives to me that I do not have. I simply asked how you knew where this image was taken. I am pleased to get this information. I just wish you and Laura could have provided the info without the personal attacks.

I am seriously failing to see why you are having a hard time understanding this, or why you must insist that this photo is from the Pacific. I 'know' because that big ole Square J on the tail stands for the 390th Bomb Group which operated out of Framlingham, England. The group flew 300 missions with 8,725 sorties, dropped 19,000 tons of bombs, and lost around 150 airplanes in combat. Do the math, 150 X 10, that's 1500 airman either KIA, MIA, or POW. I work for an organization that travels the country in a B-17 teaching the generations of today of the courage & sacrifice of those 1500 airman. My father is a former President of the 390th Bomb Group Museum in Tucson, AZ & my grandfather is the 390th historian, and a combat veteran of 45 combat missions over Nazi Germany. That sir, is why I KNOW what this picture is of.

How do you know? Type of aircraft?

I can tell you with complete absolute certainty that this photograph is not from the Pacific. It was taken over Europe in '43.

Thanks for that information. I have no idea how to cross reference the images. Many do have descriptions at the bottom of the images and as I recall they also say USAF as well. All that are labeled are shots of the war in the Pacific and I would be surprised if this one isn't.

I do believe you did not intentionally provide incorrect information/history of the photograph. This collection of photos that was left to you, and I am only basing this on two photographs (this & the B-25's bombing an enemy ship), are most likely photos that have been widely circulated. This photograph is believed to be of a B-17F 42-3329 "Skippy" of the 390th BG based out of Framlingham England. There is some uncertainty of the actual photographer that took the photo and even of the actual airplane in the picture. Hope this helps a little. You should try and cross reference some of the other photos in your collection.

Thank you for your thoughts, Adam and Greg. It was never my intention to represent myself as the artist/photographer. Because FAA auto-fills some sections, I never even noticed my name as the "artist." I have corrected that and will do so for the other images. I may be guilty of an oversight, but I NEVER intentionally misrepresent anything. I inherited a packet of images exactly as I described. I resent your suggestion that I have distorted information, Adam. If you have correct info, please share it. As for selling the image, I must admit I have mixed feelings. I believe it is part of the public domain, but that only addresses the legal and not the ethical issue. Like you, Greg, I have had images stolen and I consider that outrageous. So what should I do? I was fortunate enough to have inherited a number of remarkable and powerful images that I believe should be seen and learned from. And profit from these tiny images is at best inconsequential and surely does not come close to the cost of my time and equipment.

I think the problem is that you are selling it. I am a professional photographer, and I must be respectfully honest in that I find it difficult to accept that you would, as you stated below, want someone unrelated and unknown to you to be selling images you made. I have had images stolen from me and found to be for sale on eBay, so I am admittedly rather sensitive on this subject. I realize that you didn't steal this image, or the other WWII image I found for sale in your pages here, but I certainly wouldn't sell images I knew weren't my own.

You say you do not claim to be the artist, but to the right under "Artist" it distinctly has your name. Your information on the photo is also blatantly incorrect. Thusly if your purpose is to show people what really went on, then you should probably offer the correct historical information. Perhaps your motives were genuine, but I fear they were probably looking to capitalize on someone else's work.

I am pleased to find out who the brave photographer of this image was. Since they were in the possessions of my uncle, who died when I was very young, I had no way of getting such info. I have never claimed to be the artist, nor have I claimed copyright. I scanned it and repaired damage to the image with Photoshop in order to share the image with others. I believe it is important that we understand what war is truly like and that we never forget the bravery and sacrifices that so many made. Clearly, you are angry at me, Laura. I don't really understand why. I assume you are related in some way to the photographer. If that is the case, I would think you would like his courageous efforts shared. I know that as a photographer, I would want that.

This image was photographed by Jerry Cole, a USAAF combat photographer of the 569th BS, 390th BG, of WWII. He is the original photographer who, I might add, risked his life taking this photograph. To say you inherited a print from your uncle may be true - but that does not make you the "artist" or copyright owner. I see you manipulated the original photograph in Photoshop. I guess you think that also makes it your art. I think it is disgraceful to claim to be the artist of a photograph in which men were risking their lives to keep our country free - and where Jerry Cole risked his life to TAKE the photograph you now are claiming as your own. I know many of these photographs are now public domain - but that is no excuse for claiming them as your own work.

Thank you, Odon and Bill!

Congratulations on your sale!!

Congratulations on your sale.......Odon.